VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. Mark, as you well know, and you actually set an example, in a wise pastor is a man who is a learner and a reader always seeking to grow in our understanding of scripture and then ramifications, implications, entailments of all of that as we navigate through our culture and what's happening in our churches. And you certainly are a reader and have committed yourself to be a lifelong learner. And so as we've done before, you have a couple of resources that you want to share with us. The first is a book by Dave Mathis.

Mark Prater:

Yep. It's a book entitled Humbled: Welcoming the Uncomfortable Work of God by David Mathis, a book I recently finished and I'm actually taking my Faith in Work group through right now. I am reading this book because I know that in my own life, pride is a lifelong battle, the sin of pride. And so I'm always looking for resources to help me grow in humility. I've benefited from, and many of you have benefited from, CJ's book on humility, just an excellent resource on humility. That's a go-to book for me. I got a go-to section for me in Thomas Watson's book, The Godly Man's Picture. He's got a couple of quotes in there that always help me remind myself of my battle with pride.

But I found this book really, really helpful by David Mathis. Some of you may be familiar with David. He wrote Habits of Grace, a wonderful book. One of the basic premises of this book is that humility and our growth in humility is not primarily at human initiative. It's at God's initiative. He loves us and he wants to see us grow in holiness and in particular Christ-like humility. And it's just an interesting way to think about it. But he begins the book sort of making that statement. He then defines humility and I wanted to read that. He said, "Humility acknowledges and obeys the one who is truly God. Humility entails a right view of self as created by and accountable to God. And this requires a right view of God as creator and as authoritative in relation to his creatures. Humility is not then preoccupied with oneself and one's own loneliness, but first mindful and conscious of God and his highness. Humility becomes conscious of self only with respect to God." And that's a very similar definition that CJ uses in his book on humility. It is just your right understanding of who you are before God. I thought that was just a wonderful way to describe it.

But he goes on to say this, and this is kind of the premise of the book in many ways. He said, "Humility is not fundamentally a human initiative, but a proper God-given response in us to God himself and his glory and his purposes in the world and in our lives." And then says this, "Self humbling is in essence gladly receiving God's person, words and acts when doing so is not easy or comfortable." And so we all have these events in our lives that are difficult, that don't make sense at times, that we really just don't fully understand what God's doing. But in those difficult sovereign events, I think one of the purposes that God has for us is he is just wanting to grow us in humility because he loves us that much. He cares more about our holiness, as we've said before, you've heard before, than our happiness. And that is a loving God.

Just two more quotes, one before I give a specific one, but this is, I think, really well said, "Humility is not our doing without God's initiative and empowering, and it's not something he acts exclusively to do for us which we receive passively." So he talks about humility is really at God's initiative, but he makes a case for our response to that and that we're not passive, that we want to grow in humility, that we want to grow in godliness. And it's very much a Philippians 2 understanding of sanctification; work out your salvation with fear and trembling, so his work that you have for God is at work in you. So there's that combination of our effort and God's initiative and grace at work in our lives. So it's kind of that he's capturing.

And one other quote that really affected me, he has a whole chapter devoted to prayer as an expression, obviously, of one who is being humbled and growing in humility. And he has this great sentence, and I'm going to read a little bit past this, but here's the sentence, "Humility in the worst of times grows out of habits of prayerful desperation in the best of times." I read that sentence and it stopped me. I thought, in the best of times, do I have this prayerful desperation? I don't know that I always do, but if I'm going to grow in humility, I must, so that in the worst of times my humility's fostered, is really what he's saying. He goes on to say this, "For those of us who are under the delusion that we are strong, prayer makes little sense, especially as a pattern of life. But when we freshly realize our fragileness and weakness, we find that the New Testament's emphasis on unceasing prayer (1 Thessalonians 5:17) is not a burden but an unparalleled offer." Really well, really well written. So just a few choice quotes that maybe might interest you or whet your taste for getting this book, Humbled. It's one that I would recommend and benefit from, just another good resource on humility that you can have on your shelf and in your heart and maybe help if you're a pastor, just helping other folks with it.

Benjamin Kreps:

Thanks for that recommendation. I'm definitely going to grab that one. And certainly one of our shaping virtues in Sovereign Grace is humility. And humility really is that cardinal virtue that is sort of the key that unlocks all manner of dependence and joy and godliness. And so definitely a topic for us to be studying regularly and I look forward to studying that. One of the things that you mentioned from that book, not an idea new to David Mathis, but that humility begins with a right understanding of ourselves and a right understanding of God, of ourselves in light of who God is.

And so to connect that, there was recently at the conference, you guys, the leadership team wanted to make sure it was on our radar, a book by John Mark Comer Practicing the Way, I believe it's called, and some concerns that you have with that book. Now I know you guys are not in the business of just naming names and taking down ministries. That's not what we're about. But this is very popular book, very popular author on Amazon, just looked it up this morning in the top five books on discipleship that are being sold on Amazon right now. Also has another book though that came out; God Has a Name, back in October and there's a resource that you want to recommend to help us think about this book as well as we seek to care for the folks in our church that at the rate these books are selling, we shouldn't be surprised if some of our folks are dipping in and checking out his books. So what is the resource that you want to recommend to us?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I want to recommend this resource because as you just said, I do wonder if we have more younger people reading, Practicing the Way. And again, this is not Red Alert status or anything like that, but it's especially for pastors, being aware of what your people are reading. And I just had a pastor last week in Sovereign Grace contact me say, Hey, you mentioned that book, Practicing the Way at the conference. I just talked to someone who's reading the book. Can you help me with some resources on that, how to reply, which I did. So it's just another reminder, maybe more people are reading it. It's actually an article that you sent me, Ben, that you found and was grateful that you sent; by a man by the name of Wyatt Graham, has more of a theological review of that book that Comer's written and also he references a sermon Comer gave entitled Why?.

And he gives a very thoughtful yet gracious critique, ends by saying because of Comer's view of God, he can't recommend Practicing the Way because obviously his view of God affects and you clearly see it in Practicing the Way how he wrote that book. So the name of the article that you sent me, and I'm hoping that we can get this link into the transcript so that guys can just click on the link and reference it. But here's the title in case we can't do that. How John Mark Comer's View of God Shapes his Spiritual Formation. And again, the author is Wyatt Graham. And it's a very thoughtful review of his view of God. And I think a couple of things just to point out, he certainly presents Comer, I think it's clear, he is as an open theist for example, which will affect how you not only view God, but how you interpret all the events in your life and in the world. And he also, Comer, seems to reject God's impassibility; sort of a doctrine that has historically been held clearly, certainly by reform folks, in the theological world as a right view of God. And it's just a good article to read and be aware of because Practicing the Way is shaped by Comer's view of God. And I don't know, what did you find helpful from the article? Anything you would add?

Benjamin Kreps:

Not a lot I would add. I did find it helpful because I'm not, wasn't very familiar, actually, with Comer until the conference. I'm reading a lot of old books most of the time, so I try to keep up with new stuff that's coming out. But the issue at hand really is one that is so important for the folks in our church because what's being addressed here is where is God, one of the primary things, where is God in my suffering? Which is one of the most fundamental questions that people have struggled with well for time immemorial. And so for us helping the folks in our church to understand, to see God as sovereign over all things, and good, is essential. I mean, we need our best theology when we're navigating through suffering. And so the concern is a book like that or teaching about God, which leans more towards an open theism view, for instance, is going to leave folks that are influenced by that ill-prepared for suffering. Because in suffering that temptation to think hard thoughts about God and begin to make false assumptions about God's faithfulness and goodness, those are all in play when we're talking about this perspective, false perspective, I believe about God. And so I'm grateful for you guys pointing us to some resources and helping us think through what folks in our church very well could be reading. And so we're not policing that, but we want to be prepared to be able to serve the folks in our church that may potentially have questions about something as fundamental as who God is in relation to evil and suffering.

Mark Prater:

Right? Yeah. The other thing that I said at the conference, just a reminder that sort of misunderstanding or false view of God or wrong understanding of God does affect what you see in the book. Riley Spring wrote a wonderful critique for me just saying the book basically it lacks gospel connections. And that's important to us, first of all, as believers, because I know my own heart, we can all have this tendency to try to smuggle our works into the gospel, the true gospel. And as a pastor we have to be mindful of helping people help them not to do that. And so a book on spiritual formation, it's a wonderful topic. We all want to grow and be more like Christ, but how we go about that and remaining connected to the grace of God found in the gospel is vital not only to our understanding and amazement of the gospel, but even of how we understand God himself. So just another thought in terms of just guys being aware of this potential resource being read by folks in your church.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I mean the reality is there can certainly be a temptation in our more reformed family of churches to believe God is sovereign. But bare sovereignty apart from God's goodness can lead one to despair. Actually, it can be a terrifying thing to consider a sovereign God apart from his goodness, but his sovereign goodness most visibly displayed in the gospel is just essential, can never be divorced from the gospel so that no matter what we're navigating through, what we're experiencing, the north star that orients us toward the goodness and kindness and faithfulness of God, even in the face of the dark clouds of suffering is the cross. And so divorcing any theology that we have, any theological position we have from the gospel or separating it in some way from the gospel is to our peril.

So appreciate the thoughtful way that you guys on the leadership team think about this stuff and seek to serve us, inform us, who may not be as in the loop on some of the resources that are coming out. So thanks for the recommendations, Mark. We'll be checking out that book, especially, I haven't gotten the David Mathis book, but I'm eager to order it. I'll be ordering it after I get off this podcast. Alright, so thanks for thinking of us and for the recommendations. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. Mark, at the conference just a few weeks ago, you gave some wonderful updates that included the potential for really exponential growth globally in the next few years. Growth that is happening now actually when it comes to our partnerships globally, not just in the States. And you wanted to give us a few updates about that starting in what God is doing in Sovereign Grace when it comes to Europe.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I want to start in Europe and all these updates I'm going to share during this episode, really it's the Lord's doing. We can't take credit for them. It's his doing and it's marvelous in our eyes. So may God receive all the glory as you listen to these updates or read them if you read our transcript because he's doing a work that we never planned but that he did. And that's what makes it even better because it brings us a lot of joy to give God all the glory.

So I wanted to start with some updates in Europe. We now officially have two more candidate churches in Europe. The first one is Calvary Galway in Galway, Ireland. That is led by Ray Clancy. Ray and Rebecca were at the pastor's conference along with another brother that he brought from his church. They've been relating to Sovereign Grace for a long time. Originally, I think the connection was through Ron Boomsma, if I remember right. And most recently has been interacting with Ed O'Mara, our area leader in Europe. And they just had a wonderful time at the conference. They got back and signed the candidate agreements that makes them a candidate church. And Ray is now in the ordination process. So that was exciting.

And then another church also, Iglesia Gracia Soberana, in Spain. And that church is led by Norman Carlos Pedd. He was at the pastor's conference as well, got back and signed the candidate church agreement. And Norman is also in the ordination process. A wonderful church there in Spain that Ed has been relating to. So that's two more candidate churches that we have currently.

We have two partner churches, one in Italy led by Ed O'Mara and one in Bristol England led by Matt Chapman. And if you were at the conference, you heard an update from Pat and Dana Tedeschi who are moving to London actually next month in January for a number of reasons. One of them is to begin leading Oasis Church, which is in a multi-ethnic area of London. Pat has a background in reaching out to Muslims in London, so that'll be a part of what he does, but he'll be leading the church there. And a part of the plan is to lead that church into Sovereign Grace. So at some point they will be a partner church. And then we still have a church in Sicily, Italy, led by Giuseppe that is interested and probably will become a candidate church.

So in the next two to three years, we could go from having two partner churches to five or six, which is a wonderful work of the Lord. And so if you're listening to this podcast or reading it, please pray for these guys who are in the ordination process, Ray Clancy and Norman Carlos Pedd in particular. And after they get through that, then they will become partner churches. So just some exciting things that are happening in Europe.

Benjamin Kreps:

That is exciting to hear. Like you're saying, what a privilege that God has given us to grow partnership in Europe. But Europe's not the only place where partnership is growing; also in Latin America, you have some updates for us.

Mark Prater:

I do. Juan Jose Solano and his wife Sarah were at the pastor's conference and I had just as meaningful interaction with them there. Juan, Juan Jo is what we call Juan Jo, who leads La Gracia in San Jose, Costa Rica, came up and just said, I want you to know I've passed my ordination, all my ordination exams and I can't wait for the ordination service, which is now planned for March. And Jose La Mercado will be there to participate in Juan Jo's ordination, and he will be the first ordained Sovereign Grace elder in Costa Rica. That will be our first partner church in Costa Rica, as there's two other elders that are with him in leading that wonderful church. And they are also in the ordination process, moving through actually pretty well. So those men may be ordained before too long as well.

So again, just some exciting updates in Latin America. I mentioned in a previous podcast that Jacobis Aldana, who leads a church in Santa Marta, Columbia, also passed his ordination exams and his ordination service is coming up. So that'll be two more partner churches in Latin America, one in Costa Rica and one in Columbia. And thanks to Joselo Mercado and Rich Richardson for all the work that they do in serving those men.

Benjamin Kreps:

All so very encouraging to hear. It is spectacular that once again, those ordination standards, as we use them, apply them wisely, are really serving us globally, not just in the States. And so it's so encouraging to hear about those men. Job well done, gentlemen, with your ordination exams, passing all of those and the growing partnership there. As well, though, there are trips that are happening even now in development as we record this, fill us on on how to pray about those trips.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's one of the reasons I wanted to devote this episode to some global updates because there are two trips that are actually happening right now over the next 10 days that I want folks to be aware of that you can please pray for these men and for these trips. The first one is Greg Dirnberger, who is a pastor at Emmaus Road Church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, along with Dave Quila, who's a pastor at Covenant Life Fellowship in Roseburg, Oregon. Those two men are flying to Pakistan as we speak, and they will be serving the pastors who are leading candidate churches in Pakistan. It's a very timely trip, I think it's the first time any of us have been there. And so they're not going to teach obviously in terms of equipping them, but they want to spend time with them, get to know them, spend time with their families just as a part of evaluating them for the ordination process. So please pray for Greg and for Dave, pray for safety, pray for protection, pray for strength. So that trip is actually happening right now.

A second one that's actually happening this week as well is a trip to the Philippines. Josh Montague, who's a pastor in Minnesota, also works for TLI Training Leaders International, who we have a wonderful partnership with, is traveling to the Philippines and he's taking with him Nate Treguboff, who leads at Cross of Grace Church in Chaska, Minnesota. And Jordan Strand, who's a pastor at a Emmaus Road Church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Those three men; Josh and Nathan and Jordan are traveling to the Philippines to teach and equip pastors that are being trained over there for pastoral ministry and ordination as well. So please pray for those three men. That's a long trip. Pray that God would give them strength, pray that God would protect them and pray that God would just help them to, not just to teach these pastors, but to care for them and get to know them relationally as well. So two timely trips that you can pray for that are happening right now.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes, we will pray. And once again, I mean, it is just one of the encouraging dynamics in all of this, is just seeing how this really is all rooted in partnership; it's relational, it's pastors from the states collaborating with pastors on the ground and other parts of the world, and we're growing together in that way. And so praise God for the work that he's doing and please be praying for those trips and for the men that we talked about that he gave us updates about in Europe and in Latin America.

So thanks, Mark, for the updates. Thank you all for watching a podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prader podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our Executive Director.

Mark, we are recording this the day before Thanksgiving in the States. We acknowledge that Thanksgiving is an American holiday, and we have folks from all over the world that check out the podcast because we are a global family of churches. But for every Christian, certainly each day is a fresh opportunity for Thanksgiving. And one of our shaping virtues, of course, in Sovereign Grace is gratefulness. We have so much to be grateful for. But we do enjoy, in the States, this time of year where to set aside specific time to be able to think about how God has been good and faithful to us. And so we're celebrating Thanksgiving over here. You're celebrating Thanksgiving. What's that look like in your house?

Mark Prater:

Well, we gather, in fact tomorrow, on Thursday, Thanksgiving day. All of our kids and grandkids will be there, which will be a lot of fun. It'll be chaos, but it'll be a lot of fun. And one of the traditions we have is that we just go around the table and everyone has to share ways in which they thank God for his work in their life over the last year. And we just have wonderful memories from a conversation like that as a family. There are moments where we're just laughing and moments where in tears because of what is shared.

I always look forward to the Thanksgiving holiday with that tradition in view. And I'm sure other families have similar traditions. It really is just one way for Christian families, I think, to just to live out that consistent excitations to Thanksgiving throughout the New Testament and the consistent example of Paul in particular in his epistles of how he just expressed thanks generally and specifically for those he was writing too. So I love the Thanksgiving holiday for that reason. I can't wait to gather with my family tomorrow and just hear what my family members have to say.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well. I mean, is there anything more fitting for those that have been washed by the blood of the lamb than to be grateful and so great holiday including football, American football, and the fact for which I'm very grateful this year and that is the Cowboys stink. And so I will be celebrating as I gather with my relatives who are Cowboys fans tomorrow as we eat turkey and watch the Cowboys hopefully lose.

But on a more serious note, there is so much to be grateful for in our lives, and as we were preparing to record the podcast, you were practically bubbling over with anticipation of sharing specific things you're grateful for in Sovereign Grace Churches. So talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I first just want to express gratitude for the pastors—regardless of whether in the States or not—pastors who pastor faithfully in Sovereign Grace Churches. And I've just been thinking about them a lot this week and just carrying my brothers on my heart and truly thanking God for them just because of their godly character and their faithful labors for Christ and they're friends and I thank God for them.

There's just a long list of things I could thank God for and just praying, “Lord, how do I get this list down into a podcast form?” So three things that I thank God for the pastors of Sovereign Grace. The first is faithfully and accurately preaching God's word.

That can sound like a ho-hum sort of point. But if we believe that God inspired men to write his word, which we do, this is wholly inspired Scripture. And if we believe that when we read the word and when the word is preached to us, it is actually God speaking to us, God using men to speak to us as they faithfully and accurately preaches word, then that point becomes even a little bit more meaningful in that regard. We gather each Sunday to hear from God himself as the word is faithfully preached. I just thank God for the pastors in Sovereign Grace Churches who spend hours on sermon prep. And the reason they're doing that is they want to not be faithful but accurate in exegeting what God has said because there is a fear of the Lord that you have when you preach God's word because you are representing him. It's God speaking to us through his word. So, thank you brothers for working hard in ways that many of your members don't see as you toil over a text and as you prepare each and every week. There'll be pastors preaching this week, thinking about Sunday on the Thanksgiving holiday. So they're thinking about it throughout the week. So, thank you brothers for that sacrifice.

The second thing I thank God for the pastors of Sovereign Grace is how you lead your churches mindful of your members. And what I mean by that is we believe in elder-governed, elder-led churches. And so we feel, as pastors, a responsibility for the church that we want to lead it well, we want to protect it, care for it, and lead it in a direction that God intends. But we don't do that in a vacuum. We lead in such a way that we want to make leadership decisions that best serve the members of our churches, not that best serve us, but best serve them and best serve the church as a whole. And I think that's really important in elder-led, elder-governed polity. And I want to read a quote that can be found in our very first perspectives booklet, Who Governs the Church written by Jared Mellinger. I commend this book to our pastors, read it. You received a copy at the Council of Elders meeting. But if you're a member of one of our churches, I would encourage you to read this booklet as well. It is really, really well done. But he quotes Alexander Strauch in his book Biblical Eldership. This is what he says,

“When issues are brought to the congregation, the elders, as Spirit placed shepherds, take the lead in guiding the congregation in orderly and prayerful decision-making. As the congregation looks to its elders for wise leadership, the elders also look to the congregation, their brothers and sisters for wisdom, counsel, inspiration, creative ideas, health and prayer. Elders who understand the sacred nature and dynamic energy of the Spirit-empowered congregation, know the necessity of congregational participation in all major decisions.”

So, we lead, but we don't lead in a vacuum. And I thought Strauch captures that very well. So thank you for being men who faithfully lead your churches, mindful of your people and getting the input of the members of your church as you do.

The third thing I thank God for are all the way that you serve in ways that are just not seen by the average member of your church. And the first thing that comes to mind is how you pray—how you pray for your church, how you pray for your people, how you pray for specific individuals in your church that may be going through a difficult time that you carry on our heart. Those prayers aren't seen except by the Lord himself who hears them. Thank you for that.

And then just a late-night texts and phone calls you might have because there's a pastoral issue. I was just thinking of this last night. Jill and I were at our community group, and that's a group of pastors and wives where we gathered twice a month to have biblical fellowship. And near the end of the meeting, one of the pastors had to get on a text because there was a pastoral issue in our church. And I just thought so many of the members don't see that, but this is a faithful pastor pastoring in his church. So thank you for pastoring in all the ways that are unseen.

So just a few ways I thank God for the pastors in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. You're not only grateful for the pastors of Sovereign Grace, you are also full of gratitude for the members of Sovereign Grace Churches. And you wanted to express some of that gratitude as well.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I do. I just love the members of our churches. As I travel around, I get to know them and they're just dear people. They're just dear believers who sincerely want to follow Christ and love the local church and want to grow in Christ. It's just wonderful to see. So just three ways that I thank the members, which is a much longer list by the way.

Benjamin Kreps:

You're restraining yourself.

Mark Prater:

I am restraining myself. Okay, three ways I thank God for the members of our churches. And, by the way, I'm not trying to be exclusive here. I think these ways mark other churches in other denominations. I just want to thank God for the members of the family of churches we belong to.

So first, and this is related to the first one I gave for the pastors: eager to learn and apply God's Word. One of the things that strikes me as I am in different Sovereign Grace Churches is how are the members of our church, they lean in during the preaching. They want to hear God's word. And they now want to understand it and learn more about it, they really have a desire to apply it desire so that the preaching of the word has this transformational effect in their hearts and souls progressively over time. And a part of the way that they do that is through fellowship and their commitment to participating in regular fellowship through small group ministry.

I mentioned I was at community group last night, and, on the way to community group, just thanking God that he calls us, even commands us, to have regular fellowship because without it we wouldn't be able to grow. And I just began to think about all the small group leaders in Sovereign Grace who are leading meetings, even maybe last night and thanking God for them. So, if you're a small group leader in a Sovereign Grace Church, thank you. Mine and Jill’s group is led by Rob and Gina Flood, and we love being in their group. We just thank God for Rob and Gina Flood. So that's the first one, eager to learn and apply God's word.

Secondly, the members of our churches serve in ways that are unseen. I mentioned that about pastors. I wanted to mention this one regarding members. Just so many ways that on a Sunday morning, if you pay attention, you'll maybe notice, maybe not because so many are serving behind the scenes. Whether that's serving with tech and sound on a Sunday morning, or in children's ministry where you drop off your children, or you're praying before the service with a group in a separate room for the service that day—those are just some of the ways that our members serve not to be seen, or noticed, or thanked, but because they love serving God and they love serving his church. So, thank you for all the ways that you serve.

And then third, there's so many things I could write about this, but thank you for your generosity. You are a generous people who give faithfully and generously each and every week to your church and maybe beyond your church. The church is able to function and do gospel ministry because of your faithful generosity, and many times sacrificial generosity. And I think that's just a remarkable evidence of grace on your life and I just thank God for you and all of those ways and more for the members of our churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, that's wonderful. Thanks for sharing that, Mark. I mean, the things you're highlighting that I love is for pastors and members in our churches. I imagine for many of them, most of them, it can just feel like, “Well, not that big of a deal. Not very meaningful; just trying to glorify God and serve and do my part.” But you're highlighting just what an evidence of grace it is in all of these things—of God's activity throughout our churches, pastors preaching God's word—that is not a given in our culture, and yet our pastors are committed to it—to serving and courageously shepherding the church. And members of our churches serving and giving in partnership together. Man, we do have so much to be grateful for, including you, Mark. So, thank you, Mark and the Leadership Team, including Jared. Thanks for the book on elder governance. We'll be checking that out. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here, Lord willing, next week. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. Mark, we're a couple of weeks away from another wonderful Pastors Conference, still with memories lingering of the enjoyable and edifying time that we shared together in Orlando. Part of the conference each year, though actually before the conference, when we have our Council of Elders, you give something I look forward to, I'm sure we all do. At that Council of Elders, you give a State of the Union address each year and this year was no exception. And so there was a faith-building, encouraging State of the Union address. You want to talk about that, but before we get into that, why do you give a State of the Union address each year?

Mark Prater:

It's a great question and I'm not sure we always think about why do I do this in my role as executive director? Well, first of all, it is a requirement according to our Book of Church Order. It is a unique responsibility that the Council of Elders has given the executive director to report to them annually, basically on the State of the Union in Sovereign Grace. But it's so much more than just a requirement in the way that we have sort of put together a State of the Union and deliver a State of the Union each year.

So here are some other reasons that I think it's important, why it's given annually. First of all, it gives me the opportunity to just provide just a clear vision for our future, casting vision for our future and establishing the priorities for our family of churches over the next year. It's an opportunity to do that and to do that live and in person before the council is just this wonderful experience to do so. So there's that.

I think secondly, if you think just add a theological category to it, if you can do that, just think about the sovereignty of God. And what I mean by that is that things change from year to year. And so the State of the Union really is a response to things that may be changing, whether it's in the culture or denomination. And in that sense, we're following God and attempting to have him lead us, ultimately. And the State of the Union gives us a chance to, gives me a chance, just to talk about that with our pastors. So some other things in terms of changes, there can be theological challenges that are new or that change from year to year that we've got to adapt to and just be aware of and make sure that we're guarding our churches appropriately so we can maintain theological fidelity. There can be cultural issues that change from year to year. And it seems like in the last several years that's happened more rapidly in many ways...

Benjamin Kreps:

On steroids.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, exactly. So there can be these new pressures that our pastors are facing from the culture in leading their churches. And it gives us a chance to speak into those. There are changes that can happen within the denomination. There can be new challenges within our denomination or new things that have just come about that we can now utilize. And so for example, this year we distributed and really released our Sovereign Grace catechism at the conference. And so that now is a tool that I can encourage every pastor to give to every member of their church because they're going to benefit, their soul's going to benefit, from going through that catechism. But it also helps us maintain theological fidelity, which is one of the things I talked about this year in my State of the Union. It also gives me a chance to give updates on things that are happening in Sovereign Grace that not everyone may be aware of and to thank pastors who are serving Sovereign Grace extra-locally in a variety of different ways.

And in that sense, it's also just an attempt to get us all on the same page and moving forward together. The State of the Union does provide that. And also of small benefit, some pastors have told me, usually I give an outline. I also give an executive director update that has a number of stats and you kind of combine those. Some pastors like to take that back and just inform their churches of what's happening in Sovereign Grace. So they wouldn't take my outline, just hand it out, but they might talk about, for example, the number of church plants that we have planned over the next two years and where they're going to be throughout the world, which can really build the church into Sovereign Grace. So those are just a few reasons beyond a BCO requirement of why I give one annually. And in doing so, I think it has strengthened us and helped put us on the same page year after year. And so I'm grateful for the wisdom of putting that in our BCO when it was written 11 years ago.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Well, this year, once again, you directed us ultimately toward God, which is your main purpose in that Council of Elders meeting. The specifics fall underneath the umbrella of our pursuing God together in Sovereign Grace by faith. And you highlighted a number of priorities for us in 2025 that one can hear if listening to the Council of Elders address on the resources page, which I think you'll talk about, but what are some of the priorities that you highlighted for the upcoming year?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, my first response to that question, if you weren't in the Council of Elders meeting, is to listen to it, to hear those priorities. And as you mentioned Ben, it's on the events page, it's listed below the breakout sessions, the audio is there. There's an outline available that you can just go along to use as you listen to it if you want to. And there should be a transcribed copy of the State of the Union available soon on that same webpage. So I would say listen to it. That's the main way to figure out what are our priorities in the next year. But I do want to highlight a few that I did talk about this year, not all of 'em. I think a lot of what I talked about is to try to prepare us for our future.

And when I say future, I'm thinking about the next 10 to 15 years. And there were a number of priorities under that category, preparing for our future. For example, just preparing young men for pastoral ministry who are aspiring to pastoral ministry. And it gives me a chance to introduce a new initiative by the leadership team, a pastoral development and deployment grant program that churches can apply for to have a pre-pastors college internship grant given to them. Or maybe a grant for pastors college expenses or after pastors college graduation, a grant for a residency post-graduation where they can just get experience in a local church to grow in pastoral ministry, especially before transitions occur from the founding generation to the next generation in the next 10 to 15 years. So things like that in terms of preparing for our future.

Also talked about having faith to maintain our theological fidelity, which is challenging in any year and is probably always going to be a topic for us. But there was something unique this year I just wanted to say about it because I think as things shift theologically, culturally, and even in evangelicalism, we must be a denomination that remains just committed to our theological convictions as found in our statement of faith. And it's one of the reasons the Sovereign Grace catechism I think is so important, not just for pastors, but for every member of our churches. And so just be aware that that resource is available and a little insider baseball, we're thinking about working with a potential publisher that would help just distribute that for us and maybe in doing so, give us bulk rates is something new that we're exploring since the conference.

And then the other thing I talked about is cultivating joyful generosity among our churches and in our churches. And that's because this would be an evidence of God going before us. I just see so many evidences. Now there are anecdotal, but you put 'em all together and I just think, my goodness, God is at work in our family of churches, I think in a very unique way, not unique to Sovereign Grace, but just unique in terms of his work, doing work that men can't do to stir generosity in people. It's something I've just noticed over the last probably year, and I continue to hear stories of people just being generous. And again, they're anecdotal, but the kind of generosity I'm hearing that is divinely inspired. I don't think there's a pastor to take credit for that. And so we kind of want to get behind what God is doing, and I gave four recommendations in my State of the Union of how to cultivate generosity. So just a few of the priorities that I talked about for us as a denomination in 2025.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Well, I do encourage anyone who hasn't heard that address to go ahead and listen to it. It's a wonderful mix of envisioning and encouragement and is faith building as we look to the year ahead. I know for us here at Living Hope, coming back from the Pastors Conference, we're right in the middle of a stewardship series we do each year because we need to raise money above our general fund to pay our mortgage on this wonderful building that God has provided for us. And it certainly, I found my strength, my faith strengthened coming back from Orlando to press into the grace of giving at Living Hope. And God has been very good to us as well in that regard.

So in case guys aren't aware, you should know that that address each year is the fruit of many hours of Mark praying for you, studying, thinking, considering; working many countless hours and late nights as you care for us through that address each year. So thank you for doing that once again, for building our faith, for leading us. The old leadership adage, if you aim at nothing, you'll hit it every time, we're aiming at something and you're helping us to aim in ways that are God-glorifying for us as a denomination in Sovereign Grace.

So thank you, Mark. Thank you all for checking out the podcast and we'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. Mark, we're recording this just about a week after the conference from last week, ended. And as come to expect over the years, a wonderful conference and thank you for leading that conference. Thank you for the leadership team and the thoughtfulness you brought to planning the conference. It certainly was enjoyable; it was practical, it was edifying, it was certainly God glorifying and a joyful time that we enjoy every year. And last week was no exception. But what was your take on the conference?

Mark Prater:

My take on the conference was that God was very, very good to us in so many different ways and it was just good to be together. I didn't realize, I think I talked to Erin sometime late in the conference. We had over 800 folks there.

Benjamin Kreps:

Nice.

Mark Prater:

Which was wonderful. And then people from 22 different nations, which adds that global flavor that we love in Sovereign Grace and a mix of different generations. So it's just a picture, a visual picture of, and a reminder that we are a global multi-generational family of churches by God's grace alone and will continue to be that way by God's grace alone. And it was just wonderful. I was telling some of the guys on the leadership team, even told you before we started recording Ben, that this year was especially enjoyable to lead along with the guys on the leadership team. It was just a delight and a joy that I can only give credit to the grace of God for. But it was really enjoyable. And I remember there's so many highlights for me. One was at the very end, the last session's over and Aaron Law, who's the senior pastor of Grace Covenant Church in Jacksonville, Florida, came up with these four really young men, late teens, early twenties, who were just so excited to be there.

And I think all of them are aspiring to pastoral ministry and that gives this old man a lot of hope for our future to have young men like that who want to be Sovereign Grace pastors in the future. So there's just sweet moments like that for me throughout the conference. And God was very, very good to us. One of the ways he was good to us was through the teaching we enjoyed in the main sessions and the breakout sessions. And each of those main sessions and breakout sessions, we think about them in a way that they not only serve in the moment during the conference, but actually can provide ongoing resources for pastoral teams and for leaders and members of our churches. And so I just want to make sure that folks access those, all of the audio and most of the video, I think all the audio and video for main sessions and all the audio for breakout sessions are up online and are accessible on the events page of our Sovereign Grace website. So just want to mention those as solid resources to be accessed over the next several months.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, I certainly plan on revisiting those resources and some of them I actually haven't even checked out yet. I was in one breakout, can't attend all of them. But those main sessions, man, what a wonderful experience to sit under the preaching of these gifted and godly men that we love and respect. Certainly had some highlights for me personally when it came to the main sessions and the sermons. There's a couple of those that you want to highlight for us and also give us suggestions on how we can benefit from the main sessions.

Mark Prater:

Let me make some recommendations to pastoral teams first. And so senior pastors, if you're a follower of the podcast, listen or read or watch, I would recommend that you ask all the guys on your team to just listen to all the main sessions. Again, I think it's going to be helpful to do that. And you want to do that in a way that you're thinking about your local church and how do you bring application to each of those main sessions.

Some specific recommendations would be that you listen to Jeff's message, which talks about 2 Timothy 2:2, and ask the question, who are the sons in our church and how are we equipping them for pastoral ministry if they have interest in pastoral ministry? Just a wonderful way to begin to think through that. Of course, Jon's message on pursuing godliness is something we want to begin with our own lives as pastors. Jared's message on encouragement, cultivating a culture of encouragement, first of all on your pastoral team and then in the church. And then would really recommend CJ's message to listen to again or for guys who weren't at the conference, I heard a number of people say to me, it was like CJ was pastoring me personally with his message on regret and how he skillfully preached that in ways that I think really helped people. I think that is a message actually that people will go back to and listen to again and again because we will all have regrets in this life.

So just some recommendations for pastoral teams in terms of your leaders, I'd recommend that you send them all the main sessions out to your leaders. And I think that again, CJ's message on regret will be especially helpful to them because they not only have regrets, but if there are small group leaders and they're helping you pastor people in your church, that sermon can be accessed by any member of a church and really be pastored and served. Just all the main sessions to all of your leaders I think could be really, really helpful. So just some quick thoughts on how to utilize the main sessions as a pastoral team.

Benjamin Kreps:

Again, just very grateful for those main sessions and just sort of the broad spectrum that was covered in those main sessions from diagnosing and caring, for pastoring our hearts in a very specific way with that regret sermon to the practical exhortations embedded in, for instance, Jon's and Jared's sermon. So I heartily agree, and that's something your church can benefit from all manner of different kinds of people can benefit from different of those different main sessions.

But we also had breakout sessions. I attended Josh's masterful, that's not an exaggeration, masterful breakout session on counseling and biblical counseling and the state of the therapeutic world and so forth, which is incredibly important for pastors definitely to understand what's happening more broadly speaking in that world because we're caring for folks that are coming into our churches having been affected by the therapeutic world, breathing the air of that world throughout the week. But there were a number of other breakouts as well, each one with an intent to serve in different ways. And so I'm looking forward to hearing them. I've only heard Josh's, looking forward to hearing the other breakouts, but talk to us about the breakout sessions.

Mark Prater:

For the breakout sessions. By the way, all of the outlines, and I think maybe even the transcripts are up on the website, so the audios there, but there's a number of other resources that are important to capture. First of all, for pastoral teams you just mentioned Josh's breakout session, competent to counsel, it was excellent. Just so, so good. That is a breakout session. So filled with good content, you need to listen to it probably a couple of times. I think every pastoral team ought to listen to that one. And senior pastors take responsibility to get the resources that Josh made available; he has counseling and mental health book reviews that are available on the website. And he also has a David Powlison reading list, a separate document that's also on the website. Those are gold. And make sure, senior pastors, make sure that your pastoral teams are aware of all those resources and utilizing them. But I would listen to that and then discuss it as a pastoral team. Similar with Jeff's breakout session on application and preaching, putting God's word to work, the task of application and preaching. I wasn't there, but I've already heard a lot of good comments about how helpful that was.

Benjamin Kreps:

I'm sure.

Mark Prater:

We designed that one because one of the strengths in Sovereign Grace historically has been a good application that helps you apply the gospel to your life in preaching. That is something we don't want to lose. And that's why we asked Jeff to teach a breakout session. Discuss that as a pastoral team. If you are a pastor or you have a leader in your church who's responsible for evangelism, make sure you have them listen to Jim Donohue's breakout session on the role of an evangelist. That's going to be really, really important to listen to. And as we plan the conference, one of the things we talked about is we don't want to lose this priority of building godly homes, which Is why we asked Brian Chesemore to teach his breakout session, which is a must listen to and his outline is up there, I believe as well. God's glorious vision for the family. That would be one to discuss as a pastoral team and make sure that in your own family, you men are building godly homes as a wonderful example to the church.

And then for the leaders in your church, have them listen to all the breakout sessions, but certainly Josh's breakout session, competent to counsel, especially small group leaders. I think that's really, really important for them. Anybody helping you with evangelism? Jim's breakout session and then Brian's breakout session on building Godly homes could help anyone in your church and make sure that they're listening to that. One other breakout session was Betsy Ricucci's breakout session Lessons from Eve. Just really well done. Of course I wasn't there.

I read the transcript before, and Jill, my wife, was just saying, Mark, that was just so good. That will serve any woman in a Sovereign Grace church. So to pastors, again, have your wives listen to it, you listen to it, discuss it with your wife, and then consider how you can make Betsy's breakout session available to all the ladies in your church. It's just really well done. Again, lessons from Eve is the title of that. So just some recommendations to not just let the conference go by and not utilize it in an ongoing way, these wonderful resources that will strengthen your church and help us to build God-centered churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Well, grateful to you, Mark and the leadership team each year. That conference is the fruit of your prayerful and careful and thoughtful planning as you guys seek to serve us. And you certainly did it again this year and it is always wonderful to hear from just a variety of gifted pastors in Sovereign Grace that are there to serve us, and serve us they did.

So, thanks Mark. We'll certainly be checking out the resources and seeking to utilize them in our churches. If we are wise, we will all do so. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. Let's see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, for any who are following the podcast, they would know that the last episode that we recorded, you were encouraging us on the topic of faith and the vital need for faith, especially in the life of a pastor. Well connected to that and just to continue in this vein, we wanted to talk today about the most significant expression of faith, which is the practice of prayer. And you had a quote you wanted to share with us to encourage us.

Mark Prater:

I do. I got thinking about this quote again this morning because I opened my inbox and there were just issues there and problems that needed to be solved and they felt beyond me. And I just thought, I've got to pray, got to pray. And we all feel that as Christians and certainly pastors face things like that routinely, just issues that you are needing to lead through or help people with and they feel beyond you. And isn't it good that we have a God who hears our prayers?

And one of my favorite expository commentators is Dale Ralph Davis, and he writes this in his commentary on the book of Judges. He says, this, "Yahweh's hearing, God's hearing, is the most crucial matter for all prayer. When God listens to our voice, we must never respond with a yawn. We will trivialize prayer whenever we forget the repeated miracle. It involves the gracious condescension of the kingdom of glory, who stoops down, stoops down to listen to our verbs and nouns, our adverbs and questions, our groans and tears." That's a wonderful quote because it reminds us of this repeated miracle every time we go to God in prayer; that he stoops down and he listens to us and then he answers our prayers according to his good plans and his goodwill. That is an amazing thing that we can't trivialize, that should never become routine. The fact that God hears us and acts on our prayers in just wonderful.

And I wanted to share that because as you mentioned Ben, we talked about the vital role of faith in pastoral ministry. And one of the wonderful expressions of faith is that of prayer; we are men and we're Christians, you're a member of a church listening to this podcast, you feel that need that we have when we don't know what to do, but our eyes are upon you, as the Old Testament talks about. And we go to God and we go to prayer. It is a miracle every time we do because God hears us. It's amazing,

Benjamin Kreps:

Amazing. Amen. Great. Very encouraging. And as this podcast drops into whoever subscribes to the podcast in their email, it'll be coming the Monday before the Pastors Conference. So one week before the Council of Elders convenes the following Monday. And so as we prepare to gather together in Florida a week after this podcast drops, of course there's always a lot for us to pray about. So much need. We need God to work. You and the leadership team and everyone involved has worked very hard. You're putting forward your best effort. I'm confident of that. And yet at the same time, unless God meets with us, unless he moves, we labor in vain. So what are some things you would encourage us to be praying for as we head toward the conference?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, just with the conference, the Council of Elder's meeting just a week away, It's not just prayer, it's desperate prayer. It's Lord, please do what only you can do. Move in ways you can only move and work in ways that you can only work. And prayer is so important to so much of what we do in Sovereign Grace, I think to all that we do in Sovereign Grace, including our partnership. And that's what the Council of Elders meeting represents. It's an important meeting for our partnership. That'll be on Monday, November 4th. And so pray that God would give us wisdom, the pastors of Sovereign Grace, who join together to make decisions, to strengthen our partnership, pray that God would give us wisdom in those decisions. And as we debate through them and sort through them, ask the Lord to give us unity in those decisions so that it will best serve our churches and so that our mission together will glorify God. So that's on Monday, November 4th. Just a couple of ways to pray.

And then pray for the Pastors Conference, my favorite conference of the year. The leadership team and I love leading that conference because we want to focus on encouraging and equipping and caring for the pastors and wives and leaders from our churches who come to that conference. That is our heart to do, but we can't do that apart from the Lord's work, as I mentioned earlier. So pray that God would move in such a way that every pastor and wife attending, every leader and wife attending would go home encouraged and strengthened. And may we all go home with just a bigger vision of God and how good he is. Pray that all aspects of this conference would be used for the glory of God because he alone is worthy.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen, when we pray in that way and with great expectation. Looking forward to being together in Orlando very soon. Also, guys be praying for Mark in his role and the unique weight he carries as he leads that conference along with the rest of the leadership team. Before we end this conversation though, we wanted to talk a little bit more about the topic of prayer because before the podcast as we were discussing about what we wanted to talk about, really felt that the Lord was leading us in a specific direction and wanted us to zero in on the need not just generally for folks to pray, but pastors to pray. I mean all believers are invited to the great privilege of prayer, but for the pastor, there certainly is a unique calling to pray when it comes to our role in serving the church as pastors. In fact, we are called to the ministry of the Word and prayer, job description time. And so in that you want to encourage, before we're done here, you want to encourage pastors specifically about this area just a bit more when it comes to prayer.

Mark Prater:

And like you, Ben, I'm grateful the Lord led us this way. Wasn't our plan coming into this podcast, but I believe he's leading us this way to focus in on this prayer request and here's the prayer request. Father or Jesus, fill me with the Spirit. It's that reference to Ephesians 5:18, "be filled with the Spirit". Pastors know it's written in the imperative mood. So it is a command and it's written in present tense form. So it is an ongoing, daily, some I think, hourly need for us to be filled with the Spirit. And I think that's important for us as pastors because all that we do is work that only God can do. And you realize that, obviously, the longer you're in pastoral ministry.

So we need the Spirit to fill us because we need the helper's help. Jesus referred to the Spirit as the helper in his farewell discourse. We need the helper's help, divine help, in all that we do. And we need the Spirit's power. We need divine power to do what we can't as men. We're not that strong. We're not that wise, we're not that good, but the Spirit is, and we are to be filled so that we can receive divine help and divine power so we can serve the people of our church with in a way that strengthens them and in a way that brings God glory. So I just want to encourage guys; pray often, be filled with the Spirit.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. Amen. I mean the reality is there are seasons in the life of pastor over the course of a life of ministry where I know what this is like. And I think some other guys can relate to this, where we're busy doing the work of pastoral ministry and freely, eagerly giving Jesus to the people that we serve; praying for them, preaching to them, while at times we can find our own souls dry, we can feel distant from God. And so your encouragement is most helpful especially for any pastors that are checking out the podcast that are like, yeah, I know Jesus is for the people I serve, having trouble feeling that personal experience with him in prayer. And so to pray and ask to be freshly filled with the Holy Spirit and to know the glory of a text like Psalm 145, which speaks of the greatness and splendor of the kingdom of God and the king overall, and in verses 18 and 19, the promise that the Lord is near to all who call on Him, to all who call on him in truth, he fulfills the desire of those who fear him. He also hears their cry and saves them. I mean, what a wonder. I mean just apply that Dale Ralph Davis quote immediately in this text. But we do want to encourage pastors to feel and know and experience God's nearness in their work, even in seasons of challenge and critique and all manner of struggles that happen in pastoral ministry. We pray with the promise that God is near to us so near to us, he wants to fill us with His Holy Spirit. And so let that be an encouragement.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. It's one of the wonderful works of the Spirit to point us to Christ and to then treasure Christ. JI Packer has this great quote, I'm sure guys have heard it in his book, Keep in Step with the Spirit, which is basically that the Spirit works to shine a spotlight on Jesus and the Spirit never works in a way that says, look at me, come to me. He's like, no, look at him. Go to him, meaning Christ. And when our souls are dry that way we need the Lord Jesus Christ. And the Spirit gives us power and directs our attention to him in a divinely powerful way that we all need as Christians, but certainly as pastors who can be in a place that you just described so well.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes, I mean, as a pastor going to pray in a season of distance, dryness, that simple prayer, I'm confident God responds to "Holy Spirit, show me Christ, show me more of Christ", which we know the Spirit is most eager to do in our lives. And perhaps that is the simple prayer that is most needed in a season like that in order for us to experience that nearness with God, fresh revelations of the glory of our savior as we move in prayer in pastoral ministry.

So thank you, Mark. Thank you for your consistent example and encouragement when it comes to prayer throughout the years. I can't wait to gather with everyone who's coming to the conference and to have a front row seat, to experience God answering our prayers that we will be crying out to God for his help over the next days as we head toward the conference. So thank you, Mark, for your encouragement. Thank you everybody for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. Mark, as you well know, in Sovereign Grace, as pastors in Sovereign Grace, we are not professionals to quote John Piper's classic book on pastoral ministry. We do care about things like productivity and seeing success in our endeavors, of course. But underneath all of our efforts is this vital, irreplaceable, non-negotiable need for pastoral ministry. And that is the role that faith plays when it comes to our role as pastors. And you wanted to talk to us about that today.

Mark Prater:

I do. Faith plays a vital role in pastoral ministry, I believe, and I want to talk about this today because I've had some experiences recently where I'm carrying a couple of groups of men, pastors, on my heart that I just feel like the Lord wanted to devote this episode of the podcast too.

So here's the first group. I've had some anecdotal conversations with wonderful Sovereign Grace pastors recently, men who have been faithful in planting and building and leading their church for many years. And in talking with them, some of them are just weary, they're weary, they're tired, they love what they do, but there's just a weariness that can happen over time. And of course when you get to a weary place, you can ask questions of the Lord and just wonder certain things. Your heart is vulnerable, your mind is vulnerable, vulnerable to go certain directions that you just wrestle with the Lord with. And so I just carry those men in my heart into the podcast, the weary pastor who's been laboring faithfully for years. And I thank God for that group of men.

The second is just church planters. I was just in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, the church you planted a year ago out of your church and interacting with, well, I was there at Redeeming Grace Church doing a seminar on the spiritual gifts and got a few minutes just personally with Jeremy Hetrick, the man you sent out. Ben. He has planted, done a wonderful job of planting Redeeming Grace Church. And he was just talking about some of the challenges of church planting for him. And he's responding to those well, but they're challenging and they're hard. I was just thinking about it and it made me think about our church planters like Jeremy that are in the early years of church planting and facing challenges that church planters face. No permanent meeting location, although we have a number of churches that have that challenge. You're taking, for the planter, a group of people, and you are leading and influencing and molding them into their own church. And certainly you have folks that maybe aren't Christians that haven't had a church experience, or maybe some people are joining you that have a different church experience and it's taking them and building 'em into a gospel centered church. That's not easy to do. And then of course, there's the regular preaching of God's word, which all pastors face that. But then in the church planting, you're also thinking about are we being faithful in our outreach efforts because we want to plant this church to get conversion growth and not transfer growth? And those are some of the challenges that planters face.

And then I'm thinking about the planters who are going to plant in the next two to three years in Sovereign Grace. I'm going to speak more about this at the Pastors Conference, but right now we have about 14 church plants planned for the next two to three years. I'll speak more about it, six in the US and eight outside of the United States. And those men right now are preparing for church planting. They may need to move. So they're looking for housing for them and their family. They're looking for a meeting location and the place that they're going to plant. They're hoping to build a church planting team and even wondering who will join this team if you're being sent from a church who will come with us and not knowing yet whether you've got a team, there can be a little bit of anxiety over those kind of things. These are some of the challenges that church planters face even before they officially start the church. I'm carrying church planters on my heart today, as well. And as I thought about those two groups, it is that vital role of faith and pastoral ministry that I just want to speak into during this episode.

Benjamin Kreps:

When it comes to starting something new like a church plant, a new church, a new role for a church planter, certainly there's a lot of excitement, anticipation, enthusiasm, something new is being created, but a joy. And then a church is planted, or a pastor is pastoring a church for a long, long season, year after year. And enthusiasm and excitement cannot sustain a pastor. There are so many dangerous toils and snares that we must walk through in pastoral ministry. And so what's needed most is that dependent faith being sustained by the Lord as we cast ourselves upon him in faith. But this isn't just a good idea. This is informed by God's word. And so talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, God's word speaks into it and all pastors know that. And I just want to reference one verse that I've been thinking a lot about and meditating on and reading again, again as it relates to faith. And of course it's in Hebrews 11 and it's verse six in particular that says, and without faith it is impossible to please him. Meaning to please God, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

And so for the weary pastor, for the church planter, we are in those moments when we are just thinking about anxieties or we have fears or we're weary, we're to seek God. And that actually pleases him when we do because our seeking of Him is an expression of faith. It's an expression of we believe that he exists and that he will help us. And it's that kind of faith even in your weariness and even in your anxieties, that God is pleased with, it actually pleases him, which I think is the ultimate aim in pastoral ministry. We do all that we do to please him, which is one of the reasons I think faith is so important in pastoral ministry. And I've just not only been studying that verse, there's just certain things I've been reading that I want to strengthen my own faith.

So I want to read some quotes that I hope will strengthen you as it relates to continue to grow in faith because it's vital for pastoral ministry. The first is from Charles Bridge's book, the Classic, the Christian Ministry. And if you're weak, if you're feeling weary, if your church planting team isn't put together yet, if you don't know where you're going to meet, when you form this church plant, if there's just some unknowns for you, those are wonderful places of weakness that God intends to use. And this is what Charles Bridges says. Faith links our weaknesses in immediate connection with the promises of almighty aid and enables us to say to the mountain of difficulty, who are thou? Oh, great mountain. Thus discouragements, properly sustained and carefully improved, become our most fruitful sources of eventual encouragement. While love to our work bears us on above all our difficulties.

And that is just so well said. There's a love for your work that a pastor has. It's one of the reasons I believe we're happy pastors in Sovereign Grace and that carries us above our difficulties. But in those moments of weaknesses, we can have faith that those discouragements actually that the Lord is going to use to be some of our greatest encouragement when we look back someday. That's a wonderful expression of faith.

The other thing I wanted to read is from one of Spurgeon's lectures to his students, and this particular lecture is entitled The Holy Spirit in Connection to Our Ministry. And the reason I'm mentioning this is because all that we do in ministry we can't do in man's own strength. It takes divine strength and divine power and we are in a work ultimately that we can't do. It's got to be God's work and God's doing, I mean conversion of souls, reaching the lost, for example, discipling people to grow in Christ. We don't have the kind of strength and power to do that, but God does. So an expression of faith is reliance upon the work and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And so this is what Spurgeon says to his students. "Miracles of grace must be the seals of our ministry; who can bestow them but the Spirit of God? Convert a soul without the Spirit of God! Why, you cannot even make a fly, much less create a new heart and a right spirit lead the children of God to a higher, I believe what he means by that, Holy, life. "Without the Holy Ghost, you are an expressively more likely to conduct them in carnal security if you attempt their elevation by any method of your own ends. Our end, brothers, can never be gained if we miss the cooperation of the Spirit of the Lord." Isn't that well said?

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes.

Mark Prater:

We can't even make a fly. That's a good reminder. But the Holy Spirit does wonderful heart changing work either in conversion or growing someone in Christ. And then I just want to end with this, what I'm saying, with one more quote, this comes from a minister's fainting fits, one that I would highly recommend that lecture to weary pastors. And this is what he says between this and heaven. "There may be rougher weather yet, but it is all provided by our covenant HEAD," capital HEAD, "In nothing, let us be turned aside from the path which the divine call has urged us to pursue, come fair or foul. The pulpit is our watchtower and the ministry, our warfare, be it ours when we cannot see the face of our God to trust, yes trust, under the shadow of his wings." That's comforting. Yes, it's that's faith building and that causes us to seek the Lord in faith and that pleases him.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. That is rich encouragement. Mark. Thank you. And I'm sure there's some weary pastors that are checking us out that are grateful for your care as well. That verse in Hebrews, that is a verse worth taking unhurried time to meditate on and to draw the riches of the truth it contains because there's going to be so many times in pastoral ministry where you're going to feel perhaps appropriately or not, I feel alone, to feel like there's all sorts of forces arrayed against me. I'm doing my best. And to know that by our dependent faith in God in those challenging seasons and those moments of weakness, that we can please him. And so what is more sustaining for us than to know, even in the hardest moments, I can please him and to know he has promised he is pleased with me. I don't know what to do. I'm not sure how to proceed, but I can please him. And to know that through that dependent faith God has promised, be pleased and to meet us as we work through all of the challenges of pastoral ministry.

So thank you, Mark, for your encouragement. Thank you everyone for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 11:28, how in bringing his oversight to a lot of different churches that he faced the daily pressure or concern, or ESV says anxiety, for all the churches. And you as our executive director overseeing many dozens of churches and know what that's like. And so here's the question. When you wake up in the middle of the night thinking about the concerns you have for Sovereign Grace, what are you thinking about?

Mark Prater:

Well, I do wake up in the middle of the night. In fact, just last night I woke up in the middle of the night and was thinking about several different things. So there's a list of things that go through my mind and I take those and try to turn them into prayers, which is what I did last night. One of the things that was on my mind when I wake up in the middle of the night is actually if God would allow Sovereign Grace to be a multi-generational family of churches, will he continue to provide young men and young women who will be faithful members of our churches, faithful to the gospel, faithful in obeying and following Christ, faithful to pursue Christ-like growth in their life and faithful to share the gospel with others? And how will the Lord do that?

And so I was just kind of praying out of Psalm 78:6 that talks about how one generation tells the next generation about the wonderful works of God in this case, the gospel. And then they can tell their children, just a reminder, of how God works through generations to pass that good news of Jesus Christ. And so that's what I was thinking about last night. That's what I was praying for, asking God to provide.

And even as where we're at at this point as a denomination where the founding generation is my age and will be transitioning at some point, and future generations, younger generations will be leading our churches, leading our regions, leading our denomination, I'm praying that some of those young men who are part of Sovereign Grace churches are compelled and even called to pastoral ministry. That's another thing that I pray for, just godly young men who say, I want to give my life to gospel ministry. That's the other thing that I do pray for. So that was on my mind last night and I was thinking about it. And of course, we don't want to just simply pray, although that's most important, I think in many ways, knowing that God hears our prayers, we want to take steps of faith to serve the next generations as well in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I share that burden with you, Mark. And the past few months at our corporate prayer meeting, we have a monthly corporate prayer meeting; that is a category we've been praying for, not just the next generation at Living Hope, but across Sovereign Grace churches as well. And so one tool that we're using to help equip the next generation and to strengthen them as we pass the baton is the Relay Conference. So we had the Relay Conference this past January, this year actually, it seems maybe like it was longer than that. And the next one's coming up sooner than you might think because the next one's this upcoming January in just a few months. And so this is an opportunity to serve the next generation, the young adults in our churches in a wonderful way. And you wanted to talk about that as well.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's one of those steps of faith that we prayerfully and yet enthusiastically have created and put a lot of time and work into because it's just an expression of really investing into future generations in Sovereign Grace churches. And that's the Relay Conference as you mentioned. I thought it was a good time to mention it in the podcast. I was thinking about it last night, but also because it's January 2nd through fourth, and once we get to this time of year and we get near the holidays, it seems like time flies by.

And it's just a good reminder that if you're not registered for the Relay Conference, you might want to do so soon, certainly before January gets here, so that you can be there to attend. Now, Relay is a young adults conference. It really aims at 18 to 25 year olds, but last year we had high school students there. We had young men and women, young couples, married couples in their thirties. So that's really the age range that's there, the high school through thirties. And if you're in that age group, I really would want to encourage you to attend because it is a conference meant to serve you, your generation, and just to equip you and inspire you. I think part of the thing that I heard from last year's Relay Conference is that there were all these people in this room of the same generation and they realize, wait, there's other people like us who really want to take up the cause of Christ and to further the gospel, and we get to do that with a bigger group of folks than I realized before this conference started. That's just one of the effects that it has.

And as I mentioned, one of my prayers and your prayers, thank you for praying by the way, Ben, and leading your church to pray the way you do. But one of our prayers has been that God would give us young men called to Pastoral Ministry. So there are pre-conference sessions for those young men for the Relay Conference again this year, pastoral interest sessions, there's a few of those that begin on Thursday afternoon on January 2nd. And actually I'm happy to announce that Jeff Purswell is going to be a part of those this year. I don't believe Jeff was a part of those last year. So another bonus or incentive for young men who think about pastoral ministry is to register for those as well.

So right now we've got registration, I think it's around 330; people from 20 plus different states within the United States, but we also have registrations from Australia and Canada. So it's exciting to just begin to anticipate gathering with all those folks. And I just think it's going to be a wonderful conference. Anytime you've got CJ Mahanehy and Jeff Purswell, just those two alone preaching, it's going to be good. So they'll be preaching as well as Jon Payne and Jared Mellinger and Dave Taylor. And then there's several specific breakout sessions that are planned that will be done by Josh Bolunt who was there last year and taught, Walt Alexander, also Jace Hudson and Joel Shorey, just to name a few of the guys that will be doing breakout sessions. So I really want to encourage you to, if you've not registered and you're in either high school through your thirties to get registered before the holidays get here, and come prepared to just rejoice in Christ January 2nd through fourth. That'll be in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania at the church I'm at. We're hosting it at Covenant Fellowship Church.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Yeah, I was able to attend earlier this year at the first Relay, I'd encourage any pastor, but especially maybe even senior pastors, lead guys to consider coming with a crew, big or small from your church so that you can experience what God's doing among the young adults in Sovereign Grace because it is a wonderful experience to be in a packed room. I mean, the news stories, we hear them constantly about the decline of the American church, about how young people are growing up, graduating high school, leaving the church never to return. Well, by God's grace, we're seeing in many of our churches exactly the opposite. And God is doing something among the young adults in our churches. And so this is a wonderful resource to use along with what we're doing locally to serve the next generation of young adults coming through Sovereign Grace.

Dr. Carson, Don Carson has famously noted, speaking about a denomination that has moved away from biblical fidelity, that in the first generation they believed and preached the gospel. And the second generation, the gospel was assumed. And in the third generation the gospel was lost. And so God forbid that would happen to us, and by his grace it won't because as we seek to be faithful, he's going to meet us because he's faithful. And so Relay's just a wonderful opportunity to help invest in that next generation. So please consider coming; pastors, consider joining the young folks that are coming, and we look forward to all who will gather in January.

So thanks, Mark, for your encouragement and for your care for us and for the next generation in Sovereign Grace. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.