Dynamic Growth and the Challenge of Discipleship
VIDEO TRANSCRIPT:
Ben Kreps:
Welcome to the Mark Prater Podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our Executive Director. Mark, the reports are widespread. I'm sure guys read in the news about the decline of the church in the West, but happily, for many churches in Sovereign Grace, actually we're seeing the opposite. We're seeing dynamic growth in many places. Talk to us about that.
Mark Prater:
It's really amazing what God is doing. And what I'm about to share, of course, is anecdotal, but it's also at the same time, very exciting. The Sovereign Grace church, Covenant Life Fellowship in Roseburg, Oregon, led by Dave York, has been enjoying real growth. They got to a place where they needed to move to three services because of the number of people they were getting. And so before they did that, they were able to talk with the community college there in Roseburg and began to meet there. And it's an auditorium that I think holds about a thousand or so. The very first Sunday they met they had 600 people that came to that service, which Dave York was telling me "this just seems unreal". And then on this past Sunday afternoon, Easter Sunday afternoon, he texted me, "Mark, this is unreal. We had over 900 people <laugh> at our service on Sunday." You gotta keep in mind, this is a town, a city of about 30,000 people and yet the folks at Covenant Life Fellowship are just doing a great job of reaching out to their neighbors, those in their workplace and people are coming.
Also, there were pictures I saw this week on social media that Ricky Alcantar posted, the Senior Pastor of Cross of Grace Church in El Paso, Texas, where they met on an Easter Sunday in an outdoor amphitheater in El Paso. Just looked like a beautiful day so that they could all be together in one service because Ricky's church has grown and is currently at two services. So it's just wonderful to see. Ben, you also mentioned that at Living Hope in Harrisburg on Sunday, you were over capacity because of God just bringing people. And that's not just happening in the States. You know, when I was in the Philippines, Jeffrey Jo's church has probably 300-400 people there at two services, and they now are beginning to look for property and land so they can accommodate the people that are coming. I mentioned before, J.P., Senior Pastor of Calvary Gospel Church in Andhra Pradesh state of India has grown from 30 people on a Sunday morning pre pandemic to over a hundred post pandemic.
So it's not just in the States, it's throughout the world that God is at work. It's a reminder that he's still drawing people to himself and that he is saving the lost. And so it's something to marvel at and we can't take credit for. That's what makes this so, so wonderful. This is God's work and he deserves all the glory.
Ben Kreps:
Amen. And certainly we would want to give a shout out to all the pastors who are currently shepherding small churches and maybe aren't experiencing growth. In no way would we wanna discourage you in your faithful labors. And the challenge for every Sovereign Grace Church, whether large or small, growing or not, is that we need to disciple these people. I mean, dynamic growth, is wonderful, but that's not what we're in this for in Sovereign Grace, never have been. Historically, we're not playing the numbers game to measure success. We're about discipling Christians and helping them to grow to maturity. Talk to us about the need for discipleship, the challenge of discipleship as we experience the blessing of growth.
Mark Prater:
Yeah, I'd love to. Let me start by just picking up on what you just said. If you're pastoring a church that currently isn't and enjoying some of the growth that I just described, I think the most important thing to remember and to keep before you is that faithfulness is what God looks at. Paul says that in his letter to the Corinthians, that a steward would be found faithful. That's God's measurement. And so I know you men are being faithful and God will bless your faithfulness, regardless of how many come on a Sunday or not. And you would have the same responsibility as those who are enjoying some growth, as you just mentioned, Ben, an expression of faithfulness, which is to disciple those that are coming to your church. If they're new Christians, obviously, you've gotta disciple them in the Christian faith. If they're coming from other churches, there's a discipleship that occurs. And I think like other denominations and organizations who are also enjoying growth, it's that discipleship in gospel centrality that we're talking about.
We've been talking as a Leadership Team that we're hearing and we're observing new people in Sovereign Grace churches who aren't as familiar with our gospel-centered culture. And so we've gotta make sure that we don't assume that they understand our gospel-centered culture. And that's why I think the resources that we make available as a Leadership Team can be really helpful to you. In particular, the two Journal additions that we did, one on our values that was published in June of 2022, and the one on our shaping virtues that was published in October of 2022. And consider using those Journals; give them to new members, potential new members in your new members classes. You can order the entire Journal on Amazon. It's also available on our website for free. And if you want to just show them where they can read the Journal, we've posted each of the articles in all of our editions on the website. So you could click on a particular article, you could print that out, you could take new people through one article on a virtue of humility, for example. So just a lot of flexibility the Journal gives you, and I wanna remind you that I think it's an important resource for the newer people in your church.
Another idea, and we talked about this, Ben, you're actually gonna do this in the fall, is to teach on our shaping virtues and use that as a teaching series that really talk about how they are just the fruit of the gospel worked out in our lives. Those are what should mark the disciple as he or she is growing in Christ, as grace helps us to live out our salvation with fear and trembling. So, just some ideas to throw around. In fact, I think you told me that you're actually doing this teaching series in the fall, mindful of the new people that have come to Living Hope. Isn't that right?
Ben Kreps:
Yeah, absolutely. We have people from all kinds of denominational backgrounds and certainly wanna equip them, strengthen them, theologically help them to grow and understand the scriptures, but also to help them understand. People who show up say things like, everyone here is so nice. And what we're aiming for, of course, in discipleship, it's not to help people be nice, but to clearly lay out that what they're experiencing is the fruit and effect of the gospel. And it involves humility, joy, gratitude, encouragement, generosity, servanthood, godliness. We actually give people targets. We give them virtues that they can strive to attain to and join us. We're inviting them in to join us as we imperfectly, but sincerely and zealously, seek to glorify God with our lives.
Mark Prater:
Yeah. Amen. And let me just mention one other Journal edition, the most recent Journal that was just published. It's title is the Passion for the Church. There are great articles in there that really describe essentially our ecclesiology and why we do believe and do experience the church, as Spurgeon said, as the dearest place on earth. So that's just another resource to keep in view as you have new people attend your church.
Ben Kreps:
Amen. We started giving out copies of the Shaping Virtues Journal along with the Statement of Faith with new member materials. We wanna be clear; help people to have clarity so that they can join us as we seek to follow Jesus together at Living Hope. And then across Sovereign Grace as well. I know lots of guys are doing things like that. So thanks, Mark.
Mark Prater:
One more thing before we close. I know that what we're experiencing in many of our churches in Sovereign Grace is not unique. I want to be clear about that. There's other denominations, church movements that are enjoying that growth and may that continue. It's just a reminder to continue to pray that the Lord would save the lost, and maybe even bring revival again for a period of time for the purpose of seeing more people come to Christ. And again, that's why this is important. It's not about Sovereign Grace. It's about Christ. And we want to serve him and we want to show people the glories of the gospel so that they would come to know him as Lord and Savior as well. So just a reminder, to pray for those things.
Ben Kreps:
Absolutely. We didn’t come up with this stuff. This is simply just New Testament Christianity. So wherever the gospel is central in a church and working its way out and in among the church, they too, are experiencing similar things as us. So even as some of us are experiencing dynamic growth, and the joy in that, how much more substantial, is the joy that as we seek to be faithful, he is pleased with out efforts whether our churches are small. I believe I see that throughout Sovereign Grace churches. It’s wonderful to be in partnership together. So thanks, Mark, for your encouragement. Thank you for watching or reading. See you here next week, Lord wiling. Bye for now.