VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. Mark, we're recording this just about a week after the conference from last week, ended. And as come to expect over the years, a wonderful conference and thank you for leading that conference. Thank you for the leadership team and the thoughtfulness you brought to planning the conference. It certainly was enjoyable; it was practical, it was edifying, it was certainly God glorifying and a joyful time that we enjoy every year. And last week was no exception. But what was your take on the conference?

Mark Prater:

My take on the conference was that God was very, very good to us in so many different ways and it was just good to be together. I didn't realize, I think I talked to Erin sometime late in the conference. We had over 800 folks there.

Benjamin Kreps:

Nice.

Mark Prater:

Which was wonderful. And then people from 22 different nations, which adds that global flavor that we love in Sovereign Grace and a mix of different generations. So it's just a picture, a visual picture of, and a reminder that we are a global multi-generational family of churches by God's grace alone and will continue to be that way by God's grace alone. And it was just wonderful. I was telling some of the guys on the leadership team, even told you before we started recording Ben, that this year was especially enjoyable to lead along with the guys on the leadership team. It was just a delight and a joy that I can only give credit to the grace of God for. But it was really enjoyable. And I remember there's so many highlights for me. One was at the very end, the last session's over and Aaron Law, who's the senior pastor of Grace Covenant Church in Jacksonville, Florida, came up with these four really young men, late teens, early twenties, who were just so excited to be there.

And I think all of them are aspiring to pastoral ministry and that gives this old man a lot of hope for our future to have young men like that who want to be Sovereign Grace pastors in the future. So there's just sweet moments like that for me throughout the conference. And God was very, very good to us. One of the ways he was good to us was through the teaching we enjoyed in the main sessions and the breakout sessions. And each of those main sessions and breakout sessions, we think about them in a way that they not only serve in the moment during the conference, but actually can provide ongoing resources for pastoral teams and for leaders and members of our churches. And so I just want to make sure that folks access those, all of the audio and most of the video, I think all the audio and video for main sessions and all the audio for breakout sessions are up online and are accessible on the events page of our Sovereign Grace website. So just want to mention those as solid resources to be accessed over the next several months.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, I certainly plan on revisiting those resources and some of them I actually haven't even checked out yet. I was in one breakout, can't attend all of them. But those main sessions, man, what a wonderful experience to sit under the preaching of these gifted and godly men that we love and respect. Certainly had some highlights for me personally when it came to the main sessions and the sermons. There's a couple of those that you want to highlight for us and also give us suggestions on how we can benefit from the main sessions.

Mark Prater:

Let me make some recommendations to pastoral teams first. And so senior pastors, if you're a follower of the podcast, listen or read or watch, I would recommend that you ask all the guys on your team to just listen to all the main sessions. Again, I think it's going to be helpful to do that. And you want to do that in a way that you're thinking about your local church and how do you bring application to each of those main sessions.

Some specific recommendations would be that you listen to Jeff's message, which talks about 2 Timothy 2:2, and ask the question, who are the sons in our church and how are we equipping them for pastoral ministry if they have interest in pastoral ministry? Just a wonderful way to begin to think through that. Of course, Jon's message on pursuing godliness is something we want to begin with our own lives as pastors. Jared's message on encouragement, cultivating a culture of encouragement, first of all on your pastoral team and then in the church. And then would really recommend CJ's message to listen to again or for guys who weren't at the conference, I heard a number of people say to me, it was like CJ was pastoring me personally with his message on regret and how he skillfully preached that in ways that I think really helped people. I think that is a message actually that people will go back to and listen to again and again because we will all have regrets in this life.

So just some recommendations for pastoral teams in terms of your leaders, I'd recommend that you send them all the main sessions out to your leaders. And I think that again, CJ's message on regret will be especially helpful to them because they not only have regrets, but if there are small group leaders and they're helping you pastor people in your church, that sermon can be accessed by any member of a church and really be pastored and served. Just all the main sessions to all of your leaders I think could be really, really helpful. So just some quick thoughts on how to utilize the main sessions as a pastoral team.

Benjamin Kreps:

Again, just very grateful for those main sessions and just sort of the broad spectrum that was covered in those main sessions from diagnosing and caring, for pastoring our hearts in a very specific way with that regret sermon to the practical exhortations embedded in, for instance, Jon's and Jared's sermon. So I heartily agree, and that's something your church can benefit from all manner of different kinds of people can benefit from different of those different main sessions.

But we also had breakout sessions. I attended Josh's masterful, that's not an exaggeration, masterful breakout session on counseling and biblical counseling and the state of the therapeutic world and so forth, which is incredibly important for pastors definitely to understand what's happening more broadly speaking in that world because we're caring for folks that are coming into our churches having been affected by the therapeutic world, breathing the air of that world throughout the week. But there were a number of other breakouts as well, each one with an intent to serve in different ways. And so I'm looking forward to hearing them. I've only heard Josh's, looking forward to hearing the other breakouts, but talk to us about the breakout sessions.

Mark Prater:

For the breakout sessions. By the way, all of the outlines, and I think maybe even the transcripts are up on the website, so the audios there, but there's a number of other resources that are important to capture. First of all, for pastoral teams you just mentioned Josh's breakout session, competent to counsel, it was excellent. Just so, so good. That is a breakout session. So filled with good content, you need to listen to it probably a couple of times. I think every pastoral team ought to listen to that one. And senior pastors take responsibility to get the resources that Josh made available; he has counseling and mental health book reviews that are available on the website. And he also has a David Powlison reading list, a separate document that's also on the website. Those are gold. And make sure, senior pastors, make sure that your pastoral teams are aware of all those resources and utilizing them. But I would listen to that and then discuss it as a pastoral team. Similar with Jeff's breakout session on application and preaching, putting God's word to work, the task of application and preaching. I wasn't there, but I've already heard a lot of good comments about how helpful that was.

Benjamin Kreps:

I'm sure.

Mark Prater:

We designed that one because one of the strengths in Sovereign Grace historically has been a good application that helps you apply the gospel to your life in preaching. That is something we don't want to lose. And that's why we asked Jeff to teach a breakout session. Discuss that as a pastoral team. If you are a pastor or you have a leader in your church who's responsible for evangelism, make sure you have them listen to Jim Donohue's breakout session on the role of an evangelist. That's going to be really, really important to listen to. And as we plan the conference, one of the things we talked about is we don't want to lose this priority of building godly homes, which Is why we asked Brian Chesemore to teach his breakout session, which is a must listen to and his outline is up there, I believe as well. God's glorious vision for the family. That would be one to discuss as a pastoral team and make sure that in your own family, you men are building godly homes as a wonderful example to the church.

And then for the leaders in your church, have them listen to all the breakout sessions, but certainly Josh's breakout session, competent to counsel, especially small group leaders. I think that's really, really important for them. Anybody helping you with evangelism? Jim's breakout session and then Brian's breakout session on building Godly homes could help anyone in your church and make sure that they're listening to that. One other breakout session was Betsy Ricucci's breakout session Lessons from Eve. Just really well done. Of course I wasn't there.

I read the transcript before, and Jill, my wife, was just saying, Mark, that was just so good. That will serve any woman in a Sovereign Grace church. So to pastors, again, have your wives listen to it, you listen to it, discuss it with your wife, and then consider how you can make Betsy's breakout session available to all the ladies in your church. It's just really well done. Again, lessons from Eve is the title of that. So just some recommendations to not just let the conference go by and not utilize it in an ongoing way, these wonderful resources that will strengthen your church and help us to build God-centered churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Well, grateful to you, Mark and the leadership team each year. That conference is the fruit of your prayerful and careful and thoughtful planning as you guys seek to serve us. And you certainly did it again this year and it is always wonderful to hear from just a variety of gifted pastors in Sovereign Grace that are there to serve us, and serve us they did.

So, thanks Mark. We'll certainly be checking out the resources and seeking to utilize them in our churches. If we are wise, we will all do so. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. Let's see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, you've talked in the past on a podcast about how you lead a Faith and Work group at Covenant Fellowship where you seek to serve Christians in the workplace and you're just about to start another iteration of this Faith and Work group. Why do you do this group?

Mark Prater:

Well, actually this week I start another Faith and Work group study and I went back and looked, I think this is starting the ninth year. It might be the 10th, but I think it's the ninth actually, because I'm old and don't remember. I tried to find when did I start this thing and this will be the ninth year. I started a Faith and Work group at Covenant Fellowship simply because there are Christians, members of our churches, who face real challenges in their vocation in the workplace day to day. And I was somewhat aware of that coming into ministry. I worked for 14 years with a pharmaceutical company before entering into pastoral ministry. So I carried that burden into ministry with me and eventually wanted to help folks face some of the things I faced, which can be ethical, moral, and obviously all those issues are rooted in good theology and using our Bible. That's why I started it. I'm so glad I did.

The purpose of our study at Covenant Fellowship is, we actually wrote this out as a group; one is to study the Bible and resources that give us a biblical worldview that help us address issues Christians face in any vocation in the workplace. And then secondly, it's a context to create biblical fellowship over those issues. And we've actually had that experience where someone needs to give a bad evaluation to an employee or someone in our church has got their own bad evaluation or they're facing their business owner and they're facing decisions where they may have to lay someone off. All of those kinds of challenges. And then more recently, challenges with AI and how does a Christian think about that ethically? So there's just been really good fellowship during our study as well.

It's also a context where I can cast, through the Bible and book study that we do, but also in seminars that I do, just a biblical vision for vocation that you see in scripture. And so what the effect that has is, it keeps work from being just this daily grind actually. It's much bigger and greater in God's understanding of work and vocation since he created work and really in doing faithful work as Christians, we're accomplishing his sovereign will in many many ways. So those are just some of the reasons why we do it.

Now I bring this up. I want to be very, very clear. I don't think churches have to do this at all. It's just a practice and something that I love to do. So I wouldn't want any pastor or member listening to this thinking that a church has to do this. Faithful churches will not have this kind of study or ministry in their church. But if you're interested, I'm glad to share resources because what I found, the way we've just said it to our churches, this is for any Christian in any vocation so that it's not just limited to business men, for example.

And we've just found a diversity of people in different vocations who are all united in Christ helping each other with the challenges that they face. And I think it's more fruit for us just beyond the weekly Bible studies that I'll do. And I usually do about a six week stretch, four to six week stretch, take a break, start another one, we'll choose a book and read it. And obviously I've got scripture we're reading throughout, praying for one another. I've also done a couple of, I don't know, three or four seminars over the years, which are more teaching moments and then typically after that doing a Q and A or some sort of small group discussion. So that's kind of what we've done so far. And because we're starting another one, I just wanted to speak about it again for consideration. Again, this is something a church doesn't have to do, but I've found it to be helpful in pastoring the people of Covenant Fellowship.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I so appreciate your example on that. There just appears to be no end to resources to strengthen, especially, people in full-time pastoral ministry working at churches. And I think a lot of our folks can sort of look at like, oh, you're doing the real work and we're just over here grinding and trying to make a living. And so what you're doing with that group is you're really, you're dignifying, you're honoring, you're seeking to serve people in your church who, in fact, almost none of them will ever be in full-time pastoral ministry. Most of the people we serve never will be. And so that kind of thoughtfulness I think is wonderful and I appreciate your example on that. So what do you do in the group? What's your plan maybe for the upcoming group?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, actually what we do is we have a book and we read the book together. I typically read out ahead and create a weekly curriculum that includes scriptures that they're to read and then the chapters for that week. And then each week I create discussion questions, send those out ahead of time just to give us a basis for conversation. Sometimes we get through the questions, sometimes we don't. We veer off and have some really good pockets of fellowship and conversation.

Just some books to recommend. If you're just getting started with this, Dan Doriani has written a book called Work: Its Purpose, Dignity and Transformation. You used that word dignity just a moment ago, Ben. That's what scripture does with work. It dignifies work because of how God understands work and that includes work of any kind; the stay-at-home mom to the person who works at the 7-11 to the person who's a CEO at a major organization. All of that work is dignified in God's sight. So that's a great start. If you're looking for a book to start with, that would be the one I'd recommend. A good biblical theology actually of work.

He also has a newer one and actually that's the book we're going to read beginning this week called Work That Makes a Difference. And he talks about why is work good and what makes it good. And then in all of that, his thesis, he unpacks challenges that Christians typically face in the workplace. Like what if I'm in a difficult job, do I stay there or not? What's God's will or what if I'm working for a difficult boss, love my work, but it's a difficult boss, how should I think about that biblically? And he does a really good job of addressing those things.

Just two or three more books I wanted to mention real quick. What I'm learning is people are facing the challenge of AI more and more. And I've mentioned this book in a previous podcast, but I found this is the best so far is God, Technology and the Christian Life by Tony Reinke. It's an excellent read and a good biblical treatment of how to understand technology. A book that's been around a long time, redeeming. Oh good, you got it right there. Excellent on cue. I didn't know you had that. That's funny.

Redeeming Productivity is also a wonderful book. If you're looking for something after reading Doriani and you want to give your folks a reformed worldview, for example, there's an older book called Creation Regained by Albert Wolters, and it's just presents a wonderful, reformed biblical worldview, which is basically creation, fall, redemption and consummation. But he unpacks it in a really good way.

And there's one other book called God and Money. We had a wonderful conversation over that book just a few years ago, and it actually stirred a lot in a number of people. One, in creating more desire to be generous because the book is about living on a more limited, make all you can, but live on a limited budget so that you can give money away. And I actually had a member of our church come up to me recently and he said, I've been thinking about that book and what I want to do, Mark, is talk with you about starting a group of guys that have means that I know both in the church and outside the church, I'm wondering if this could maybe even be something for other guys in Sovereign Grace to join us for support. And we have a retreat once a year, get together, we pray for one another, we talk about what we want to do in terms of our own living limitations, in terms of a budget, but what we want to give away.

So that's just one of the fruits that have come out of this Faith and Work group at our church. So I'm not promising that everybody's going to be generous in that regard, but I'm just grateful that when you put biblical tools in the hands of Christians who are in different vocations, some who have means, they, by the grace of God, just take it to heart and it's a reminder of just the joy and privilege we have to pastor the people that God has given us in our churches. And it is just an amazing thing to me, that one conversation is like, all glory to you, oh Lord, and isn't your grace amazing? And just want churches to enjoy that kind of interaction with their people. So something to consider.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. Yeah. Isn't it wonderful that in the kingdom of God there is no meaningless work when done for the glory of God, you can glorify and please the Savior through cleaning toilets or cleaning up after in the aftermath of a sick toddler. All of it matters to God when done for his glory in the grace he provides. And so what a privilege it is for us as pastors to be able to invest into the people in our church where they are each day working at their jobs and their vocations of various ways. So thanks for the idea and for your example, Mark. Thank you all for watching the podcast, checking it out. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone. And welcome to the Mark Prater podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of churches with our Executive Director. Mark, you talked on a podcast a few months back about how God has given us the opportunity to see his kingdom advance through church planting and Sovereign Grace, even in a very difficult season. Now we have a Church Planting Group or what has been known as the National Church Planting Group that is intended to serve these men as they navigate into their church plans. Could you tell us a little bit more about that?

Mark Prater:

Love to. This is a great time to be planting churches, simply because as all of our pastors know, the world needs to hear the truth of the word of God and needs to find hope in the gospel of Jesus Christ. And one of the ways that happens is through church planting.

We're actively planting three churches right now. One in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Michael Granger just had his first public service in the last two or three weeks. We're planting in Prattville, Alabama. That plant is being led by Matt Turner. And we will be planting right at the turn of the year in San Antonio, Texas, where Phillip Estrada is leading that church plant. And so our Church Planting Group—and we've dropped the National Church Planting Group; we have dropped the national name out of it and just call them the Church Planning Group because we want them to be a resource for our planters around the globe, at least in this point in time in our history. And these guys are doing a great job. That group is led by Mike Seaver, who leads that group on behalf of Eric Turbedsky, our Director of Church Planting. And what that arrangement does is it allows Eric to focus on the things that we've asked him to focus on related to church planting while Mike leads the Church Planting Group in assessing and equipping our church planters.

And this group is just a great group. It's Mike Seaver, Jeremy Oddy, Andy Farmer, Ricky Alcantar, and Greg Dirnberger. Some of our best guys.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes.

Mark Prater:

And they've been working hard really equipping guys for church planting.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. I understand that there is some of that equipping happening this weekend with these guys that are in the middle of working on a church plant. Can you tell us about that?

Mark Prater:

I'd love to. It’s happening the next couple of days. The guys are flying in today. We've had to make some adjustments because obviously of the pandemic. But Andy Farmer in the Church Planting Group is the guy on point for our Church Planting Cohort. And that's what the guys will be attending over the next several days.

So Matt Turner is flying in today and he's bringing a couple of guys with him that are planting that church in Prattville. Those two guys are kind of forming a leadership core for him. And then Phillip Estrada is coming as well. He's planting Mission City Fellowship in San Antonio after the turn of the year. And then Jim Brown, who is the Regional Church Planting Chair, a church planting committee chair for his region in the Southeast. He is coming along with Matt simply just to learn, but to sort of envision him for influencing his region in the future for church planting.

So those guys are coming in and they're going to spend what Andy's mapped out. I think it's a great plan. We're going to draw on our team here at Covenant Fellowship Church and some of our planters in the area. So guys are going to get intensives. Actually it starts now, let me just say what's happening tonight. We are having an elders meeting tonight so they can just sit in and one of our elders meetings. And then throughout the day tomorrow, they're going to have these intensives where they're going to get with Rob flood and Andy Farmer on Biblical counseling with Jim Donohue regarding evangelism, Leo Parris when it comes to youth ministry. Matt Turner is bringing his worship leader with him. So he'll get time with Joseph Stigora related to worship leading. Matt and Phillip will get time with Jared Mellinger just on the role of the Senior Pastor and mapping out sermon series in particular.

And then we've got a couple of church planters in our area, Dan Birkholz who's up in Northeast Philly and Steven Bowne who is in the Frankfort section of Northeast Philly are going to be at Covenant Fellowship. And they're just going to talk about their church planting experience in an urban setting.

So that gives you a little bit of flavor of what Andy has put together. And just one of the ways that the Church Planting Group is equipping our planters.

Benjamin Kreps:

It's just great to hear. Not only that we're planting churches but that are gifted men who serve as pastors in Sovereign Grace are being deployed to equip those men and to build relationally. I love that model. I think we all do. Do you think if somebody is on a church planting committee in their region, would you encourage them, if somebody is inclined, to come and visit one of these like Jim Brown is doing?

Mark Prater:

I think it would be a great idea. I think it would give you a little better look into how a planter is equipped and it may just give you a vision for future church planters in your region. I think you'd come away from this cohort enthused and excited about church planting and then you would bring that back to your region.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. Great idea. Any other thoughts before we go?

Mark Prater:

Well, I think it’s what you just said. You know, this is a real expression of our partnership. First of all, the Church Planting Group has got guys that serve on that from different regions. And we're using our pastors to train our church planters, all different guys who are pastors in a local church. And none of that happens without our shared commitment to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ together by planting and strengthening churches. So, what this next few days represents is one expression of our partnership and even how we, I think, build relationally within that partnership.

Benjamin Kreps:

Right. Wonderful model. Very encouraging to hear. Thank you, Mark. And thank you everyone for watching and we'll see you here soon. Bye for now.

Transcript:

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, this is Ben Kreps. Welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where we aim to connect our global family of churches to our Executive Director. You may notice if you watched the last episode, we are still in California because we want to talk about one more thing while Mark is there. Hey Mark, we're a growing global family of churches, and across the world there are pastors who are contacting us and asking about exploring and joining Sovereign Grace, and we're sending men from the Emerging Nations Team all over the world. Who decides who goes where to interact with these pastors and to serve them?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's a great question. First of all, let me ask you guys a question. I think both of you along with Dave Taylor were in Liberia about a year ago. Tell us how that trip went.

Benjamin Kreps:

Eric, how do you think it went?

Eric Turbedsky:

Oh, man. I mean, it was my first time in Africa, first time in West Africa, first time in Liberia and I had been in a bunch of countries recently and Liberia was by far the most advanced in training and deploying pastors and planting churches. It was compelling and brought me to tears. I don't know how many times, just driving in the car hearing stories of how guys, particularly Dyona, as he leads a group of churches (and then you might say he is our primary contact). Hearing him and his wife's story and how they've laid down their lives made me want to move to Liberia. Or at least leave you there in Liberia.

Benjamin Kreps:

You guys tried to leave me there. Dave Taylor was looking for an apartment for me.

Eric Turbedsky:

Yeah. Somehow Dave Taylor, you and I went and Dave and I had an ulterior motive. We were hoping to make you be the apostle to Liberia.

Mark Prater:

Ben, how did you get that title, apostle to Liberia, by the way?

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, I gave it to myself.

Mark Prater:

You gave it to yourself. Okay. That's always the best way.

Benjamin Kreps:

I was christened that by Dave Taylor.

Eric Turbedsky:

You've been in contact with Dyona more recently. What is the 15 second highlight? What's going on?

Benjamin Kreps:

I mean, I had phone call with him this morning. I'm taking another group of guys back in March actually, in a couple of months. We're headed back. This time, we're going to do a pastors training, equipping pastors with marriage and family. So Dyona's bringing back something like 50 to 80 guys who just graduated from his Grace College. So there could be 150 (pastors and a bunch of wives) where we're going to be able to invest in marriages, just teaching on things that are not taught on at all really, throughout Liberia. So we're getting excited about that opportunity.

Mark Prater:

That's great.

Benjamin Kreps:

It's quite something to be around Dyona and see what he's doing bi-vocationally (because he works another job) where he is teaching biblical theology, reformed theology, expositional preaching, in a context where it's almost all prosperity gospel. And these men, we're teaching them things about gospel-centered ministry that they've never heard. And just to watch them come alive to it is not to be missed in my view.

Mark Prater:

That's great. Thanks for going. Thanks for going back. I'll be praying for you.

Benjamin Kreps:

It's my joy. Pray for Dyona as well. We're taking him through the ordination process, and he's making progress in that. We're hoping at some point in the near future, the next few years maybe, to see Sovereign Grace Liberia.

Mark Prater:

That'd be so cool.

Benjamin Kreps:

So Eric and I went, and a number of other guys have traveled. Who does decide who's going to travel and be a part of Emerging Nations, Mark?

Mark Prater:

Well first of all, it's not me. I don't decide those things. There are a couple of ways that that plays out.

(Cross-talk)

Benjamin Kreps:

They'll let anybody go apparently… It doesn't appear that there's any leadership happening here because I was invited to go…

Mark Prater:

That works. It's just very organic. It just kind of happens, man.

Eric Turbedsky:

We're just texting you from Liberia. Hey Mark, by the way, I'm in Liberia.

Mark Prater:

That's how I learned. Um, no, it plays out a couple of ways. First, through the leadership of Dave Taylor, who's our Director of Emerging Nations. What Dave has really taken initiative to do is to form an Emerging Global Nations Team that I think has captured the right guys who can serve in different countries. But he's able to find those guys because they themselves are taking initiative towards Dave or someone that they may know (another pastor, for example, in another nation), and just begin to build a relationship with them. So for example, I was just in Annapolis, Maryland with Ed Omera. He's been building relationships with pastors in Italy. And because of his initiative, we're able to have a doorway open to us where at least two churches there are interested in forming a partnership with Sovereign Grace. So I would say it's our pastors initiative and it's the leadership of Dave Taylor.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. And Dave is doing a remarkable job.

Eric Turbedsky:

Can I ask you a question? Mark if there's somebody out there, one of the guys watching the podcast, and he's thinking, hey, I'd like to get involved, I'd like to figure out how I fit into this, what do they do?

Mark Prater:

There are a couple of things you can do. First of all, as you express your desire, is there a particular part of the world that you are burdened for or would love to serve? And when you reach out to Dave Taylor, which would be the next step, email Dave Taylor and tell him you want to serve anywhere, but you have a particular burden for particular part of the world. Let them know that too. And he'll begin to interact with you and figure out: Is there a way that you can be deployed in serving what we're doing globally?

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent.

Eric Turbedsky:

Can I add too? I think one of the most encouraging things on my end (now I'm not traveling with Emerging Nations as much as I was in the past)… but a really cool innovation in Sovereign Grace churches has been the local church's ownership of the mission. So instead of being centrally funded and coordinated, you have a guy who calls Dave and says, I'm willing to serve. Where can I go? Most, if not all the guys that are traveling right now internationally, their local church is funding their travel and their expenses. And they're committing regular time. It's not just a one off, but they're saying, I'll put a couple of weeks a year into this and so many dollars out of our budget. That's been encouraging to watch local churches step up and say we're going to own this (and more than, you know, send us somewhere). We're actually going to fund this thing. We're going to get behind it. And that has been really encouraging.

Mark Prater:

I think that approach strengthens partnership overall. Because a lot of our partnership in Sovereign Grace is among pastors. And we're trying to figure out, how do we have our members enjoy aspects of our partnership more? I think that's one of them. Once a church hears that, for example, you, Ben are going to Liberia and they're funding some of that, they can't wait for you to get back and give a report. They're much more invested into--and tied into--our mission outside of the United in ways that we're advancing the gospel, so that even though they may never go to Liberia, they feel like they're a part.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. That's so true. And to be able to stand in front of my church (as I did last year and I'll do again this year) and commend the church for supporting me to be able to go to Liberia brings a lot of joy to the folks in our church, that they know that they played a part in training pastors in Liberia. So amen to all that.

Mark Prater:

Thanks for going again, man.

Benjamin Kreps:

I'm looking forward to it. All right, well thanks for taking time to watch the podcast. Hope this was helpful to all of you. God bless you, and we'll see you next time.

Transcript:

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, this is Ben Kreps. Welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where we aim to connect our global family of churches to our Executive Director. Hey Mark, that looks beautiful wherever you are right now. Now I understand you're in California because the Executive Director likes a cush job hanging out Cali, right? What are you doing?

Mark Prater:

It's January in Pennsylvania, so I thought I should be here.

Benjamin Kreps:

What are you doing there?

Mark Prater:

I'm in California because I'm spending time with this guy, Eric Turbedsky. And I think most of you know, Eric is our Director of Communications. That's a non-Leadership Team Director role. I don't get as much time with those guys as I do with the guys on the Leadership Team. So I try to get with them once or twice a year. Not to really tell them what to do. The way I kind of just lead is I'm not a micromanager. I want to get the right guys in the right position and then give them direction and let them do their thing. And Eric is doing that very, very well. And so I'm out here spending time mostly learning from him, rather than telling him what to do.

Benjamin Kreps:

How are you doing, Eric?

Eric Turbedsky:

Doing good. It's been a good week of taking Mark surfing... No. Mark's right. You're not a micromanager, but it is really encouraging to get a drop-in even in the middle of January from Mark and just spend time with my wife and spend time with our team and just care for us. It's really encouraging to spend time with Mark.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's wonderful. And, Mark, you said you're not a micromanager. So what is your leadership philosophy as you connect with Directors and Leadership Team members? 

Mark Prater:

First of all, just overall, I'm representing the Leadership Team in this. We just see ourselves as men who exist on a team to serve our pastors and our churches. I know that term "servant leadership" gets overused, but that's really our heart and our desire. So part of my reason for even being here with Eric is to serve, as he mentioned, he and Kirsi and his team while I'm here. And we want to do that consistently in the way that we lead overall. But in terms of just working with other leaders in Sovereign Grace, whether they've got a Director role that's not on the Leadership Team or they're on the Leadership Team, I really do just want to get the right guys in the right place, and just serve them. So I can be a servant leader to them, giving them what they need, to get what needs to be done to serve our churches and our pastors. And again, I think Eric's just doing a great job of that.

Eric Turbedsky:

Can I ask how often are you on a plane just visiting with a guy (and a couple) who serve in Sovereign Grace churches?

Mark Prater:

Probably, if you throw our pastors in there, so they're not necessarily on a Leadership Team, I'd say probably a couple of times a month.

Eric Turbedsky:

Wow.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, you're welcome.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. So we're still figuring out our polity a little bit, with the first-generation Leadership Team and guys moving on and off of that Leadership Team. What do you see for the future of the Leadership Team? How that's gonna play out going forward?

Mark Prater:

I'll give you my thoughts, and keep in mind that I work in concert with the Executive Committee. So on these thoughts that I'm going to give you, the Executive Committee would need to really approve and agree with it, because they have the authority to assemble and to determine who's on the Leadership Team and who might go off the Leadership Team. So I just want to recognize the authority of our Book of Church Order and the Council of Elders in particular, especially in this case through the Executive Committee. 

But we made a change a few years ago as most of the guys know where we've got Directors who have defined responsibility on the Leadership Team. And then we also have Directors who are not on the Leadership Team. So for instance: our decision a couple years ago for Bob to step off of the Leadership Team even though he remains the Director of Sovereign Grace Music. I think it was a really strategic decision because he's just flourishing in that role where he can focus on Sovereign Grace Music. 

So as I think about the future, I think that the Leadership Team will have Directors that will have a defined responsibility, like a Director of Theology role that Jeff has. But I think we're going to begin to add on guys who've got some defined responsibility, but they may not have a complete sort of department responsibility. And their role is to be a strategic thinker and a strategic leader, a strategist in that sense. I think that will help us move forward in mission: to get the right strategic leaders on our team as well. So I think that's probably our next step if the Executive Committee agrees with that.

Benjamin Kreps:

So how do you think about evaluating and identifying men to be part of that leadership going forward?

Benjamin Kreps:

You're asking, how would I identify who should be on the Leadership Team?

Benjamin Kreps:

That's right. So it probably has something to do with tithing directly to you? That's part of it?

Mark Prater:

Right, exactly. Of course. That's at the top of my list, obviously. No, I'm looking at guys as I get to know them, and the context of this plays out more relationally than anything else. But as I spend time around our pastors and I'm watching them lead their church or I'm watching them bring initiative and leadership within their region, there are just certain guys that seem to me to think strategically. And they bring a strategic pastoral leadership in a way that seems to stand out. And those are the guys I try to get to know a little bit more and spend time with to see if they could potentially serve on a leadership team.

Benjamin Kreps:
So in the past we were an apostolic movement. And now we are not. But we still believe in the function of apostle (small "a"). So does that function in your thinking as well as you're considering guys?

Mark Prater:
It does.You know, we're elder-led, so we're no longer an official apostolic movement, if you can say it that way. But we believe that the gift of apostolic ministry is so important to our future in the way that we both plant and care for and strengthen and build churches. 

And so they're guys that obviously have that gift and may or may not be on a leadership team. There are guys that I think they're on a leadership team now that have that gift. I think Mickey is one of those. But there are guys that may not ever serve on the leadership team that are functioning that way. Some of our regional leaders I think do that really well. Oh, Rick Gamosh comes to mind as a guy who I think has an apostolic gift.

Benjamin Kreps:
Wonderful. Well thanks for taking some time in sunny California to fill us in on what you're up to and your thoughts about the leadership team. And I think somebody just ran past and maybe you can go join them for a little jog.

Mark Prater:
Alright. Great, we'll do that.

Benjamin Kreps:
Thanks for taking time everyone to watch this podcast. Hope it was helpful. God bless you, and we'll see you next time.

Transcript:

Benjamin Kreps:
Welcome back to Mark Prater's video podcast. My name is Ben Kreps. I'm the host and Lead Pastor of Living Hope Church, Sovereign Grace Church in Middletown, Pennsylvania. And today we're talking about Christmas. Merry Christmas, Mark. 



Mark Prater:
Merry Christmas Ben. 



Benjamin Kreps:
So I want to give you an opportunity to share some thoughts and encouragement for Sovereign Grace Pastors. It's an opportunity to hear from you about what we're navigating through in a very busy Christmas season. So what kinds of things have you seen in different Sovereign Grace Churches that you've enjoyed? Just to highlight perhaps a few different practices that might inspire or encourage us as we think through the Christmas season. 



Mark Prater:
Our churches do a number of different things during the Christmas season. So I would say most of our churches do a Christmas Eve service, which is a wonderful way to have people in your church who may not normally come to church. But there are some other churches that do some things that are related to Advent. They're very intentional about Advent. So Cornerstone Church in Knoxville has something called Lessons and Carols where during the singing of songs they bring a specific aspect of the advent that they want to highlight for the church throughout December. 



Benjamin Kreps:
Each sermon based on a Christmas Carol? Is that why it's called that?



Mark Prater:
I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I don't think so. Uh, I think it's more recognizing and tying truth to a specific song they're probably singing during, during that. 

And then in Sovereign Grace Church in, in Marlton, New Jersey has Songs for the Savior that they have and they're actually preaching one of five songs each Sunday in December five Sundays that relate to the advent. And then on their website they give specific lists of resources their members can access for advent. 

So you see some churches emphasize Advent and specifically the meaning of Advent. Which is so, so important. 

Here at my church at Covenant Fellowship Church we obviously have a Christmas Eve service, but we do a Christmas concert every year. We just had this past weekend and there's all kinds of people that come in from the community that we don't typically see. 

It's just a fun time for the church. 

And we also do a ministry called boxes of love, where we feed probably around 300 people in our community that are in need. They're poor folks that we're just looking to care for. So members can pick up empty boxes and they fill it with a list of food. And then we typically add something like a frozen turkey to it. And then those people are invited to come to our church and pick up that food on a Saturday if they're able to. We'll also deliver it to them. But we like to bring him to the church just to help them get inside and become comfortable here.



Benjamin Kreps:
That's great. So I think it was, I saw a video clip from your Christmas concert where the lights were out and there were glow sticks and techno music or something playing. 



Mark Prater:
Yeah. That was great. It was crazy. 



Benjamin Kreps:
I didn't immediately think of Christmas, but it looked like a lot of fun. 



Mark Prater:
Exactly. 



Benjamin Kreps:
So how would you encourage pastors when it comes to thinking through how to steward the Christmas season, which is such a big deal in our culture? There are many opportunities as every pastor is aware. A lot of churches in Sovereign Grace are smaller churches and so maybe there aren't Christmas concerts and dynamic programs. Maybe it is just a simple emphasis on the Sunday before because they can't even use the facility on Christmas Eve. But how would you want to encourage the pastors in Sovereign Grace during this Christmas season? 



Mark Prater:
Well, my first encouragement is actually to thank each of our pastors for working hard during the Christmas season. For most folks, life can slow down a bit during the Christmas season. That's not true of pastors. Life is very busy for a number of different reasons, especially up and through Christmas day. You may maybe get some time off after Christmas, but you're working very hard this time of year in ways that most people I don't think see or realize. But the Lord sees, and I believe he's pleased. And I just want you to know my heartfelt appreciation. 

I think the second thought is, and this is not a new thought, but just the opportunity that we have to reach people during this time of year who don't normally enter into a church. 



Mark Prater:
They don't come to church, but they'll come to Christmas Eve service or you can't have a Christmas Eve service they'll come to Sunday after Sunday before they call them Christmas. 



Benjamin Kreps:
They call them Chreasters: Christmas and Easter. 



Mark Prater:
That's right. The Chreasters. But don't miss the point that there's gonna be somebody that's going to come to your church and they're there out of duty maybe. They're there because their family brought them. Don't miss the fact that the spirit can work and do the work of regeneration while you're preaching the gospel either on a Sunday or on Christmas Eve. Pray big prayers that God would save the lost during this Christmas season. I think there are other Chreasters and they're looking for a place to rest at this time of year because life has been hard. Maybe this year has been hard for them and they're wanting to find a place where there's real community and love and peace. Your church will provide that cause Sovereign Grace Churches are like that. Look for the person who's looking for a respite and welcome them into your church family. 



Benjamin Kreps:
And you don't need to be a big church or have some dynamic program. Just your church being a gospel light and a place of unity and love is sufficient for God to use that church to draw people to himself. 



Mark Prater:
So true. 



Benjamin Kreps:
Well, I really appreciate how Twitter you just, I don't know if it's every day, but regularly you post how you're praying for our churches and specifically about opportunities we have with unbelievers. So thank you Mark for your prayers, and we'll be looking expectantly, as your prayers are joined to ours in this Christmas season, about what God will aim to accomplish in and through our churches. So thanks for your thoughts, Mark. 



Mark Prater:
All right, Merry Christmas everyone. Jesus came and we've got to celebrate that. So Merry Christmas.

Mark Prater: 
Merry Christmas. See you man.

Transcript:

Eric Turbedsky: Hey, my name is Eric Turbedsky, Director of Communications for Sovereign Grace Churches, and I'm here with our Executive Director, Mark Prater on his podcast, which is about getting you what you need to be part of our global family of churches. And today I want to hear from Mark a little update: How did the conference go? What kind of things would you look at to evaluate the conference? Tell us some things that surprised you from the conference. It was a great conference Mark. Thanks for leading us. What were your thoughts? 

Mark Prater:  Well thanks. Thanks for asking. I thought the conference went really well. It actually went better than I'd hoped. I mean, you pray, but God always does more than you ask or even think to ask him. So I'm very grateful to God for how the conference went overall. 

Some highlights for me were: 

-People traveling from 18 different countries to be here in the States was so encouraging. 

-I was very affected (I know a lot of people told me they were as well) on Wednesday night, before we started singing to have Psalm 1:17 read in eight different languages. It just makes the gospel big. It reminds us that the gospel transcends racial, cultural, and language barriers and saves people from tribe, tongue, and nation. So that was so encouraging. 

-The preaching was outstanding. And we could spend a whole podcast talking about the preaching. 

-One of the things that surprised me in a good way was the interest meetings that were held throughout the conference. We had a church planting luncheon where we had 16 guys who are interested in planting a church with Sovereign Grace. It's actually the largest church planning interest meeting that we've had over the last six years. So that was a surprise, and very encouraging. 

-That luncheon was packed out. It was led by the national church planting group. And I heard back from Mike Seaver in particular who said that these guys were engaged. He said he could hardly eat his lunch cause they're just asking him all kinds of questions about how to plant with Sovereign Grace. So in a time when people might be thinking who wants to plant with Sovereign Grace, we're actually finding the opposite to be true. 

-The other thing that was encouraging was on Wednesday afternoon we had the Pastors College interests meeting and that room was packed out. We had to bring more chairs to accommodate the interest there. And there's just this increased interest from people who attended the conference to actually apply to the Pastors College next year. So that was really encouraging. And that same afternoon we had an evangelism meeting led by Mickey Connolly and Jim Donohue and those guys were telling me that room was packed out, and we had to bring chairs into that room as well. 

So that was all just a pleasant surprise that I think gives you a little bit of an idea of where we might be as a denomination. That's a picture of health in some sense you can measure. So that was encouraging. 

Eric Turbedsky: Well those are all outward reaching and expanding. We're chasing the gospel as it works. It felt big on whatever that was Wednesday night when all the languages, people just reading Scripture in different languages. But if you think church planting, Pastors College, so training for the future, and evangelism... it is really encouraging to think all my friends are looking outward and wanting to build and take risks for the expansion of the gospel. That's really encouraging. 

The room seems really big at our conference. This would be a question for everyone that was there this week. Is there a reason why all the chairs are zip-tied together and we're not allowed to spread them apart? Do you know anything about this Mark? And what are you going to do about it? 

Mark Prater: I didn't know they were zip-tied actually, so that's good to know. Last year we were in a smaller room and so we requested that bigger room because it felt like we were too packed in last year. So we moved over to this bigger room. I think we can make some adjustments: either bringing the stage out a little bit more or not zip tying the chairs so people can move around. I'll make sure that gets fixed. 

Eric Turbedsky: I also heard that there were a lot of silver alerts.. explain to those that are still lost that we're looking for them. So we learned there. And I don't think this was ever an issue in the past with Sovereign Grace Churches, but these silver alerts in Florida... 

Mark Prater:  Yeah. The silver alerts are something Mickey mentioned in the panel that he learned about, which is just folks that are a bit older who get confused and lost and they can't find their way. We had some of those at the conference. So it also tells us how we're moving from the first generation to the second generation, hopefully in Sovereign Grace. 

Eric Turbedsky: Do you expect anything--any big expectations for next year, thinking ahead of the conference? What would be different next year? Obviously maybe some different speakers or topics or whatever, but is there anything, in particular, you're thinking next year? 

Mark Prater: I think we'll look at different speakers because that can be helpful. One of the pieces of feedback I got was how well Josh Blount preached at his very first conference. 

Eric Turbedsky: We call him the Jeff Purswell of the West Coast, even though he lives in West Virginia. 

Mark Prater: Right. He's close enough. His state is called West Virginia. So you can claim it. I get it. He just did a great job. 

So a piece of feedback is: There are guys that we don't typically hear from that have that kind of gifting and ability. And so that's one of the things I would be thinking through in the year to come is other guys like him. I would have Josh speak again, obviously, but, I want to think about other guys, for example. 

And we didn't have CJ speak this year, so I want to most likely ask him again. I think it's good to hear from our founder. So that, that'd be something I'd be thinking about. 

The other thing is to continue to look for times of just praying for one another. We did that a little bit on Wednesday night and I'm wondering if there's another place in the conference to do that because it's an opportunity for pastors and wives to be cared for. Typically they're caring for others, but this is a conference where they can be cared for. So I'd be looking for those. There may be one additional opportunity there for next year. 

Eric Turbedsky: I have grown to appreciate it as I've been a pastor additional years and adding those years up that our Pastors Conference is still about word and prayer, which is just so appropriate for men and who are giving their lives to the ministry of the word and prayer to come be ministered to. So thank you for how you lead us Mark. I'm grateful. I think most of us, if not all of us, went home really happy. Thanks for the update. Thanks for being a part of Sovereign Grace Churches. Hopefully this serves you. Until we meet again.

If you have questions or comments, Mark, would love to hear from you. For more videos like this, hit subscribe on YouTube or by email at markkprater.com.

Transcript:

Eric Turbedsky: Hey, my name's Eric Turbedsky, Director of Communications for Sovereign Grace Churches, and I'm here with our Executive Director, Mark Prater on his podcast, which is all about giving you what you need to be a part of our global family of churches. And today, Mark, I want to ask you a question, as we're getting ready for the pastors' conference. Actually before asked this question, I've heard that you are both traveling and moving before this pastors' conference. Where are you right now?

Mark Prater: I'm actually in Texas. It's a personal trip. As you can tell, I'm in a hotel room. My sister has two boys both in high school who are running a big cross country meet tomorrow. And my nephew is the captain of his cross country team, so this is a really big meet for him. And I was looking to bring some family support. So Jill and I are in Texas cheering them on when we get back. We are moving, we're closing our house November 12th. But I made the leadership decision, which was not well received by Jill, by the way, to move all of our stuff out before the pastors' conference. So we're moving Saturday before the pastors' conference and we'll come back home after the conference, move the smaller stuff out, clean up the house, and close on November 12th. So that's how we roll right now in the Prater home.

Eric Turbedsky: Oh my. That is how you roll. And you're not moving far, I assume. You're moving to California? That's where I am.

Mark Prater: That's tempting. No, just a mile.

Eric Turbedsky: A mile. Very good. All right. Here's my question. We're all getting ready for this pastors' conference. We're part of Sovereign Grace Churches and here's my question: Why do we encourage prophecy (the practice of prophecy) at our annual pastors conference? We don't have to. It's just a conference. I'd say some might not even expect this or be wondering why. So why is it? Why do we encourage it? And how can we come prepared, desiring to be part of the prophetic ministry at our conference? So first, what is prophecy, and why do we do it at the conference?

Mark Prater: Well, we do it because, as you know, we are Continuationists in our Pneumatology. I believe that the gifts continue today until the return of Christ. And that would be all of the gifts, not just the gift of prophecy. And all of the gifts are given for the common good of the church (1 Corinthians 12:7), but prophecy in particular is given by God to the church to build up, to encourage--to even console--people in the church, which is 1 Corinthians 14:3. This gift uniquely has this ability to edify the church. So when pastors and wives gather and they come to a conference where we hope they don't have any responsibility (or, if they do, not much at all) our desire is to care for them in many, many different ways. One of them would be through the work and the activity of the Holy Spirit that can empower the gift of prophecy, where we hear prophetic words or impressions that are not equal with the authority of Scripture, yet can have the effect of edifying people. So I would say come to the conference expectant. Pray for the Spirit to move and to act and to empower the gift of prophecy, and that it would be prophetic words that would be specific in nature, because when that happens, you know that it's the spirit that's working and it's not someone's random thoughts. One of the ways that we've enjoyed prophetic ministry over the years at the conference has been prophetic songs that Bob will actually get in the moment, spontaneously. And they can speak right into a person's situation and comfort them, build them up, and encourage them. So I'm grateful for the gift and grateful that we look to practice it at our conference.

Eric Turbedsky: How does it practically work at a conference? We would be familiar with how it functions at a Sunday service in a local church. But you're at the conference... you believe the Lord is moving you to speak... What do you do? Grab a bull horn? Stand on your chair in the back?

Mark Prater: Yeah, that'll get you kicked out.

Eric Turbedsky: Okay. Got that. Duly noted.

Mark Prater: We would apply the same principles that are directed for the local church in 1 Corinthians 14. We would apply those at a conference. So there's a difference between a conference and a local church gathering. We've gotta make that distinction. But the principles are the same where you want to bring governance and leadership to the gift of prophecy. You find that in 1 Corinthians 14:29-31 where Paul is bringing order. Paul is not wanting prophecies to be spoken out one over the other, but rather given one at a time so they can accomplish the purpose of building up. That is a language that he uses there. So if someone has a prophetic impression or word at the conference, we have a ministry mic at the front. I assign one Sovereign Grace pastor to that mic, usually just in the evening sessions. So come to the mic and share that impression with the guy at the mic. This year it's Rob Flood on Tuesday night, John Payne on Wednesday night, and Walt Alexander on Thursday night--just guys that you might know that you could look for and bring that word up and they'll determine whether we have it shared or not. Typically, I'm interacting with Bob Kauflin who is leading most of the singing, although not all the time, just where we might take prophetic words or if he has any prophetic songs that he's been praying about. So we do all that before the meeting, just to be prepared for any prophetic words that might come.

Eric Turbedsky: What's your favorite memory of prophetic ministry at a Sovereign Grace Conference? Does one pop to mind?

Mark Prater: Well immediately what pops to mind is: I think it was a couple of years ago that Bob had a prophetic song for pastors who were weary and had experienced people leaving their church or their churches, which seemed to speak right into the situation of several churches in Sovereign Grace. And it was just comforting. It was faith building. I can remember in that moment thinking: This is amazing how specifically God the Father is caring for his people through the work of the Holy Spirit. That's the memory I have.

Eric Turbedsky: Oh, good. I've got a lot of good memories. What about the person that's coming and maybe they are a Continuationist, but maybe they're not experienced, maybe they're even a guest, a guest that's watching right now, and you're a little bit nervous about what this all looks like, that kind of thing? What do you tell the person that's sitting in the back... suspicious isn't the right word... anxious about the whole thing.

Mark Prater: I would say: I can relate. When we first came to a Sovereign Grace Church, which is Covenant Fellowship, back in 1990, we came from a Cessationist church (Jill and I did)--a faithful church that preached the gospel, but didn't believe in the gifts--so when we saw the gifts in action, it just raised all kinds of questions for us--not only questions but apprehensions and fears. And I would say some cynicism even on our part. So what it did is it drove us to study Scripture. And as we studied Scripture, we realized, okay, theologically we're not Cessationists. We're actually Continuationists, but what does that mean? And what really affected us was to see how the members of Covenant Fellowship actually used their gifts. They used them in such a way that didn't draw attention to themselves. They used them in a way that served others and drew attention to God. And so someone who's coming to the conference, who's never received prophetic ministry, or has a lot of questions about how the Spirit might work... I would say, first of all, just observe and watch how the gifts are used. And I think that will help confront or deal with some of the fears or anxiousness you might be experiencing.

Eric Turbedsky: So you're free to sit in the meeting and enjoy the ministry of the Spirit. And you're not going to be put on the spot, but at the same time, we'd encourage you to come expectant that God will minister not only to all of us, but even to you specifically. You'd say that to them all. That's helpful, Mark. Thanks for your leadership. Thanks that we are Continuationists and because we're Continuationists, when we gather together we come expectant and desiring and pursuing the work of the Spirit among us. So just so grateful for that. Thanks for your leadership. That's good stuff. Until we meet again next episode, thanks for watching. And thanks for being our partners in the gospel, Sovereign Grace Churches.

If you have questions or comments, Mark, would love to hear from you. For more videos like this, hit subscribe on YouTube or by email at markkprater.com.