VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, as you well know and many who check out this podcast know, it is RAE season and regions around the country are gathering together for their regional assembly of elders. And we don't want to assume that everybody knows what happens at the regional assembly of elders or even what it is because this podcast audience is not confined to pastors. So by way of informing those who don't know or reminding those of us who do, share with us your perspective on why regional assemblies are so important.

Mark Prater:

I think they're vital to the strength of our partnership, to strengthen our partnership and really for the sake of our mission, they're vital in terms of serving our churches and the members of our churches, those churches located within a specific geographic region. So for those who maybe are hearing about a regional assembly of elders for the first time, what is that? This strange thing called regional assembly of elders. It is one expression in our polity in Sovereign Grace of really being elder-led. So that happens on a national level here in the States where the Council of Elders gathers once a year to make decisions. It also happens at a regional level. Again, regions are defined as churches within a geographic region and we want those churches as much as possible to be closer in geographic proximity just because they can benefit from partnership throughout the year.

But the regional assembly of elders meet at least twice a year, typically twice a year, spring and fall typically. And they have a number of important things that they get done at a regional assembly of elders. First of all, there's equipping, there's teaching that occurs that equips our pastors to serve our churches and to really speaking to some of the needs pastors are feeling and leading their churches. There's just lots of time for fellowship and laughter, praying for one another, praying together. Then there is also just hearing wonderful updates of things that are happening throughout the region. And then fourthly, doing the business that a regional assembly of elders does in making decisions that they have because of the authority that we see elders are given in scripture.

So a regional assembly of elders is comprised of every ordained elder in a church in a specific geographic region and they'll make decisions about church planting, about ordinations. They'll approve the budget. A lot of good business gets done there and it sounds a little bit boring, but it's actually very essential for us to be able to work together in the planting of our churches, in developing future pastors and seeing them deployed in the ministry, and in just doing that all together in a way that we can fund all that God is giving us. So I'm so grateful for these regional assembly of elders. We've been doing them for about a decade now and I think we've learned how to do them. They will vary a bit from region to region, although they have those basic components I just mentioned. But a regional leader has the freedom to design an agenda for his regional assembly that he thinks will best serve the churches in his region. That can vary from region to region. One other thing, I'm mostly talking about the states, but we're seeing that beginning to be replicated as we develop polity outside of the United States.

So we approved Mexico as a nation last year. They are just one region. So they will gather together more in a national assembly type of setting, but will do the work, the same kind of work I mentioned for regional assembly of elders. And at some point Mexico will have two regions and they will have a regional assembly of elders meeting while having sort of a national assembly, like a council of elders that we have. So just a little bit about how they work, how they're structured, and I'm so grateful for 'em. They really have strengthened our partnership and really have helped us advance our mission of telling people about the good news of Jesus Christ.

Benjamin Kreps:

I mean even the business at an RAE is not boring because it is simply seeking to steward all that God is doing in our region. So actually those business meetings are going to be quite thrilling as we consider where we are sending money, as we discern what God is doing in and through our churches. What does it look like when you attend a regional assembly?

Mark Prater:

I'll just give you a recap of what happened last week at the Northeast Regional Assembly. From an equipping standpoint, I thought Rob Flood, our regional leader, just did a great job of mapping out the topics that he had guys teach on.

So we heard a message from Shawn Woo on navigating the therapeutic because our pastors are saying there's a therapeutic influence that's in the culture that's affecting our churches potentially. How do we lead through that? So it was a great topic. Jeremy Bell spoke on the devotion to God and the pastor's own relationship and devotion to God. And then Nathan Smith did a session on the pastor and his authority because there's a lot in the culture right now about authority and it's really misunderstood where we see in scripture that authority is actually a gift from God and it's intended to be used like God uses his authority for the good of others and for the glory of God. And so Nathan did a great job of unpacking that because it's clear pastors have authority. Scripture is clear about that. Scripture is also clear about limitations of our authority because we serve under God's authority. It's also clear about how authority should not be misused. You think of 1 Peter 5, for example, not domineering over those in your care, and then the right way, that authority is to be used in a way again that is for the good of the church and the building up of the church and just holding out a vision for that was really good.

And then Rob Flood spoke on the spiritual gifts and how do we continue to pursue those in our churches. Those are the topics that we discussed. They were great. We heard a number of updates from guys on different things happening in the region. We heard an update on guys who are prospective pastors who could be ordained at some point. And then we approved ordination for Nathan Lee, who is now an ordained elder at Redeemer Grace in Newark, Delaware. We approved the budget. So that was the business side.

And then we just had a lot of time just hanging out together, sharing meals, laughing, getting updates. It was just very warm and relational. The Northeast, like the rest of our regions. I think it's just a happy place right now. And you were there because your church is transitioning from the Lower Great Lakes region to the Northeast that's now officially done. But you were at the Northeast region last week and then this past weekend you were at the Lower Great Lakes RAE. What happened there, Ben?

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, well my heart is full this week because I spent essentially five days at regional assemblies in a row going the Northeast last weekend and leaving Sunday and getting back on Tuesday. And both regional assemblies were edifying, strengthening, encouraging, a little similar in many ways, but different as well, different regional leaders. And so it was a joy, but a bittersweet joy, to attend our last regional assembly in Ohio with the Lower Great Lakes region. It makes sense though, because when you think Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, you're not thinking the Great Lakes. And so my first regional assembly in the Northeast, I had just been ordained and we voted ourselves out to join this new region. And so I've enjoyed the past eight years there. Ken Mellinger was the regional leader for most of that time. He established that region. He built that region together. And to be in that first regional assembly with just a few guys really, and then at the last one where the region is flourishing now under Jace Hudson's leadership, his fine leadership, with just a packed room full of pastors and a guy who's going to be a church planter, and prospective pastors, what a joy it was.

And we did some very similar things and we sang together, we prayed together, we heard teaching on earnestly pursuing the gifts, similar. So I got a big dose of that. We spent time praying together for specific spiritual gifts and eating together, laughing together. CJ was there and addressed us on building a culture of joy, which is always helpful to hear from him. So yeah, my heart's full, but excited now to be in the Northeast and to enjoy that expression of partnership. And those brothers that are there, I told the guys in Lower Great Lakes region, we're not leaving because there's any lack of appreciation, admiration, respect, no; great deal of affection for those men, but eager to be gathering twice a year now in the Northeast region.

Mark Prater:

And I think your desire to be back into the Northeast is motivated by what I said earlier. We want, as much as possible, our regions to be built with geographic proximity because it just fosters partnership. So that was a motivation. I said to you before we recorded this podcast, you did a great job sharing it, about joining the Northeast regional assembly, but also saying, I have a vision for us to build a region in central Pennsylvania. And I think that's exactly right. That's how we want to build because again, as we get more churches in central Pennsylvania, let's build a region there so they can experience partnership in a very meaningful way.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, we don't just want our pastors to have this great gift of joyful partnership. We also want our people in our churches to enjoy it as well, as much as possible. Now, some regions are massively spread out by necessity, but it will be wonderful in the days ahead as more churches are planted and more are established that are closer together. So not only do we enjoy as pastors, the equipping edification of partnership, but our people can increasingly do so as well.

So praise God for our regional leaders. They are doing a fantastic job from everything I can tell, certainly the two that I interacted with over this past week and are doing a fantastic job. So thanks to all of our regional leaders. Thank you, Mark, for giving us insight into what RAEs are all about. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, it is wise for every pastor to have familiar paths in scripture; precious promises, easily, readily at hand to serve our souls. One of those promises that you've been meditating on for months, and you talked about at the pastor's conference last year, is the words of Jesus in John 15:5. So we anticipate going to our next conference in the fall. We don't want to leave behind what you communicated to us, shared with us, encouraged us with at last year's pastor's conference. So you want to return to that. So talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yes, John 15:5 has been a very meaningful verse to me, one that I continue to meditate on. Jesus says, there "I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in Him, he it is that bears much fruit." And then he says, "for apart for me, you can do nothing". And I unpacked that verse a lot in my State of the Union during the Council of Elders meeting, and I talked about the fruit that we can bear as pastors and as churches if we continue to dependently, abide in Christ. And one of the fruits, if you can say it that way, that I talked about that I really wanted to call us to continue to bear in our ministry and in our lives, is that of zeal; that we would be pastors who are zealous for Christ. And I was picking up partly on what Jeff had said, at actually the Pastor's conference before that.

So we're kind of building on two pastor's conferences here. Jeff preached an excellent message from Romans 12:11, do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit and serve the Lord. And if you haven't listened to that message again recently, I would encourage you to listen that message, that sermon is also available in print. It's entitled Sacred Zeal, thanks to the efforts of Jared Mellinger who transcripted it and worked with Jeff to get it in a published form so you can listen to it. You can read it, and please do so because I want to continue to hold out for us as pastors and really as even members in Sovereign Grace churches, that we would have a growing zeal for Christ and that would mark our homes. It would mark our marriages, it would mark our churches because we have zeal for Jesus Christ. And I'm praying that that is one of the good fruits we continue to bear in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. Why don't you share with us, if you would, why you carry this burden so consistently and communicate it consistently as well, to us as pastors and members of Sovereign Grace churches?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I think it's important because first of all, I think it authenticates the work of the gospel in our lives, is really what it does. And that's real important for people to hear and see in our lives, to see it in our lives, to see it in our preaching, to see it in our leadership. Because it mentions there in Romans 12:8, those who lead with zeal. So it needs to mark our leadership as well. And I think that's been important at any point in history. It's important now, especially in an age where they're talking about the dechurching of the church; people leaving the church, not coming back. And it's important because I think people that are coming to our church, especially new people, they want to see if we really believe what we preach, this Christ that we preach, do we really believe in him and do we have love for him and zeal for him?

I also think it's an important reminder for us as pastors that when people come to our church, each and every Sunday, members and guests who come to our church, they don't need our opinions. They need the truth of God's word. They don't need you to be an expert on cultural issues or on politics. Now, that doesn't mean you can't speak into those things, but what they really need is your zeal for Christ that stems, that comes from you being soaked in the word of God. And so that word that you're about to preach you care a lot about. And I was listening to, well, Kevin DeYoung has written a book recently. I haven't read it. I just ordered it called Secret to Reaching the Next Generation. And I just happened the other day to be listening to a podcast that he was a guest on, and they talked about a number of different topics.

One of them was this book, and Kevin's saying, this is not so much a secret, but it is what we need to do. And he lists several things in terms of reaching the next generation for Christ, those that maybe have left the church and maybe visit one Sunday. And he said, one of the things is, I think he says it like this, grip them with your passion. Passion is a similar word to zeal. And he said this in the podcast, he said, people want to know that this really matters. What you're preaching really matters. And the illustration I've given so many times when I preach is the story of George Whitfield and Benjamin Franklin. I'm sure most of our listeners have heard this story where as people know Ben Franklin regularly went and heard George Whitfield preach. And one of Franklin's friends asked Franklin, why do you go and hear Whitfield preach so frequently? Because you don't believe what he says. Franklin responds by saying, I know, but he does. Whitfield does. So he went back because he was affected by the fact that Whitfield had zeal for what he was preaching. He had zeal for Christ. And that's what we want people to say about us. They may be skeptical, they may not know, but they should leave church on Sunday morning, thinking, well, he believed what he preached and that affected me. And so I'm praying that we would continue to be pastors who preach with zeal, who pastor with zeal and lead with zeal in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. Thank you for your continuing encouragement in this area of zeal and abiding in Christ in order to produce that kind of zeal in us as pastors. I love the familiar definition of Martin Lloyd Jones of preaching is logic on fire. And so may we be pastors in any context with the people we serve who encounter us, may they encounter zealous, passionate, happy pastors; as an example, a model to them and for their good. So thank you for your encouragement, Mark. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, last Friday, something I look forward to each year, the email for the 2024 pastor's conference dropped into our inboxes. Exciting to start thinking about just a few months from now, heading to the conference again, but you've shared this kind of thing before. It's always good to be reminded though, and people that don't watch the podcast in the past or listen to them might ask "Why do we have a pastor's conference every year?"

Mark Prater:

It's a great question. It's something I want to speak into actually each and every year because you can go to register and think, should we go again and is it worth the effort? Should we take the time it costs to travel? If you've got a young family, you've got to arrange childcare while you're away if you don't bring your kids. And so there's a lot of work that goes into it, and I want to explain why I think it's important to be at our pastor's conference, pastors and wives and leaders in our churches, and why we do them each and every year.

I've got four reasons of why we do these each and every year. The entire context is we are a family of churches, so it is a family reunion, a family gathering in that sense. And we do a conference to cast theological vision for the way that we do ministry in Sovereign Grace Churches. And we want to, as any leader knows, cast that vision over and over again, not to remind us, but to strengthen our theological convictions in how we do pastoral ministry and how we build churches in Sovereign Grace. So that's the first reason that we do that.

The second reason we do a conference is that we want it to be the spiritual and relational highlight of the year for our pastors and wives and leaders and wives from our churches. This is a conference where most of the pastors, leaders and their wives are coming with little or no responsibility, and they can just receive, they can receive and their souls can be strengthened. But there's also just that relational element that pastor's conference does feel very much like a family reunion. Just being together and praying for one another and singing to Jesus with one another and listening to preaching together as we sit next to each other, that just strengthens us. And there's just times of just catching up with one another. And it reminds us that we're not just a denomination in a organizational sense, but we are truly a family, a family of churches. That's the second reason.

The third reason is we do a conference every year to cast vision for our shared mission. And that's just an important thing to do because we can get sort of siloed in our churches at times or even doing things regionally, but when you gather a global family of churches together and we cast vision for our mission, you're hearing updates about how the gospel's advancing throughout the world. You just leave realizing, I'm not doing mission alone. I'm doing it with other like-minded brothers and sisters in Christ.

And then a fourth reason we do a conference every year because it's a unique way to introduce those outside of Sovereign Grace to our family of churches. Now you can do that at a local church level. You can do that at a regional level, and that's very effective. But there's something unique about gathering once a year as a global family of churches. And I just think people who come for the first time, they see something about Sovereign Grace that they do see locally and regionally, but it sort of gets bigger for them when they come to a conference. And one of the common refrains I hear from feedback from the conference, especially from guests each and every year as they say this, I don't think I've ever been around such a joyful group of pastors and leaders and their wives, and that impacts them. They just think, well, maybe I'll consider being a part of Sovereign Grace. So those are the reasons that we do it. I believe it's worth the effort and the cost and the travel. And so I'm looking forward to seeing each and every one of you at our pastor's conference November 5th through the 7th in Orlando, Florida.

Benjamin Kreps:

I can't wait. It certainly is a highlight for my wife and me each and every year. We've been going for 14 years. This will be our 14th conference, so can't wait. So reading the conference email, we have five breakout sessions that various people will be teaching. They all look very interesting. Talk to us about why you chose the five breakout sessions that we'll have at the conference.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, these breakout sessions, we put a lot of thought into it and we got a lot of input from our regional leaders. So typically the first leadership team retreat of the calendar year, which is typically in February. We meet as a leadership team for a retreat for a few days, but for the first part of that retreat, we ask the United States regional leaders to join us. And a part of what we do in that retreat is just hear updates in different regions and then let the regional leaders tell us what pastors and churches in Sovereign Grace are facing, the challenges they're facing in building churches and doing pastoral ministry. And so this list of breakout session topics really comes from that discussion in February, and we hope that it does serve our pastors and leaders and their wives.

So I'm just going to give you just a sort of a brief overview of each one and explain why we chose it. We do have a women's breakout session entitled The Virtue of Godly Submission. Betsy Ricucci is going to teach on that from 1 Peter 3 as a teaching she's done previously that she'll obviously tweak for the conference. And in her description she says this is what springs to mind when you think of the word submission, especially in our culture today. And she goes on to say, in our day, it's a concept misunderstood, misapplied and misaligned. But she goes on to point out that actually it's a virtue in scripture and even a command in scripture. So this women's breakout session is intended to just equip and inform and give wisdom on this wonderful virtue of Godly submission. I think it's going to be a timely breakout session for our ladies.

Josh Blount is going to do a breakout session entitled, Still Competent to Counsel: The Pastor, the Word, and the New Therapeutic Age. And all of our pastors, we've talked about this before in previous episodes on this podcast, but there is a reemergence of the therapeutic in our day. And as Josh says in his breakout session description, words like therapy and mental health, trauma, wellness, self-care, that language is used much more increasingly now. And we have new people coming to our churches who are saying, I need a therapist. They don't think about, they need a pastor first, but a therapist first, for example. So Josh is just going to, I know, teach this well. He's very excited about it and just talk about how do these cultural pressures emerge and this cultural language emerge, and then how do we pastor folks that have that mindset? So it's not so much about how you do all the counseling, but it's actually building a biblical counseling model or culture within your church. So that's going to be great. CJ's actually going to interview Josh after he teaches, just to draw out a little bit more. I know that's the one you're thinking about attending, isn't that right, Ben?

Benjamin Kreps:

That's right. I'm having trouble picking from the four. Of course I won't be at Betsy's, but that one really sticks out to me. There's been, we talked about it on a podcast recently, about the creeping influence of therapeutic culture in our churches. And so it just seems more and more when you meet with someone to counsel, you're having to sort of undo some things that have been implanted in their thinking before you can actually get to the heart of the matter. Just anecdotally, that certainly is increasing the common language of the culture, the creep influence of the culture, breathing in the air of the culture all week, and then sitting down in the office and having to work through and undo some things that are in place. And so yes, I think that's the one although I'm not going to promise though; they all look so good.

Mark Prater:

Well, yeah, but I think what you just said is what a lot of our pastors would say, and one of the reasons why they may be interested in that breakout. Jeff, first of all, is going to do a breakout session entitled, Putting God’s Word to Work: The Task of Application in Preaching. We want to do a breakout session or even a main session somewhat regularly over a few year period on the topic of preaching because that's so central to what we do in building gospel-centered churches. And there isn't anybody better among us to do that than Jeff. So he's just going to talk about application in preaching, and I think you should read his description because I think it will intrigue you. I think it's going to serve our pastors who regularly preach or who preach even just some.

Jim Donohue is going to talk about the role of an evangelist. He's going to lead that breakout session. He's going to do a bit of a teaching about that role and then do a panel discussion. They'll have some guys on that. As Jim says in his breakouts, that evangelism is one of the most challenging areas for our churches, and evangelists can be some of the most challenging people to deal with. And Jim would say that about himself, actually. But Jim is, and evangelists are, very, very necessary to us building churches that have this culture of reaching out to the lost with the good news of Jesus Christ. So, Jim is going to unpack that a little bit more, and I think it's going to be a great breakout session.

And then finally a breakout session that Brian Chesemore is going to lead and teach, and then there's going to be a panel discussion. John Pannell will be a part of that panel discussion. His breakout is entitled A Glorious Vision for God-Centered Homes. And the reason that we chose that particular topic is because we don't want to lose a culture in Sovereign Grace that rightly prioritizes building a Christian home, building Christian marriages and making sure that we're parenting according to biblical convictions and biblical values that can be lost. I think the founding generation has done that well, and that can be lost in future generations. And even for our founding generation pastors, this can be a helpful breakout session for us. So we're hearing that from our regional leaders. This is something we need to give attention to, is building a Godly home, and Brian is going to do that well. So those are the reasons we chose the breakout sessions. Really want thank our US regional leaders who really gave us input and helped us shape what topics to choose, what breakout sessions to offer. We had a longer list than the ones we did, so we had to prioritize them. And I do hope they serve our pastors and churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

I think they will. It's just wonderful that there's sort of a little bit of something for everybody here to be able to choose from, and I so appreciate how you guys get together and you pray together and you think together on the leadership team about what would serve our churches best. And looking at this list of five sessions, I can't help but see something of your care for us in selecting these various topics to serve the pastors and wives of Sovereign Grace Churches. So can't wait. I'm not promising which one I'm picking yet, but I'm so eager to attend and to attend a breakout and to gather with everyone at our yearly family reunion. It really should be called the Pastor's Family Reunion or something like that to accurately reflect what we're up to.

So thank you, Mark, and the leadership team, for your thoughtfulness, your labors, your care for us reflected in the conference each year. Thank you, Mark, for your thoughts, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. I proudly am wearing my Valley Creek Church swag. Got some new merch recently. Shout out to Nick Kidwell the master of conference trivia games. Shamelessly plugging here. I know you've worn a Christ's Covenant hat. So I just wanna say I'm for sale. If anyone wants a shameless plug send me merch. Large. That's what I wear. Anyway, Mark, great to see you. Thank you all for joining us. So you wanted to tell us about a resource that has recently been helpful to you.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's a book called Slow Productivity that is written by Cal Newport and it was just released on March 5th. I had actually, I think CJ had told me about this book, and so I pre-ordered the book and it came in right after my knee injury. So I've had some more time to read and wanted to get to this one because it's a secular written book. But some of those books, and I'm very careful about what I choose, but some of those books can be really helpful to us as pastors or to members of our churches who are trying to be efficient in what they do and either working well in the workplace or serving the church. So Slow Productivity is the book. Here is the cover. You'd like to see that. I think everybody can see it. It's written by Cal Newport who is a professor of computer science at Georgetown University. He's also an author who has studied work in productivity. So he is written books like Digital Minimalism, a well-known book called Deep Work. I think there's a book written called A World Without Email and Slow Productivity are just some of the books that he's written and I found that I've benefited from him. Cal is a student of work and of productivity in particular.

And his study along with observing just some work-related issues that emerged out of the pandemic and those pandemic issues like we're all isolated in our homes and people are working virtually and trying to figure out what's working and what's productive. Some of the issues that emerged out of that sort of just firmed up his conclusions and crystallized for him what it really means to be productive and what he does. So for example, he's saying right now he believes we live in this world of busyness.

We're busy doing a lot of things, but are we really being productive? Are we doing the right things that have impact? And he uses this phrase called pseudo productivity. He defines it this way. The use of visible activity as the primary means of approximating actual productive effort. So the visible means of activity are things like the number of emails you respond to or write, the number of meetings you attend, et cetera. And he uses that term approximate productivity because is that really productive? Is it really effective? So he says the result that he's seen, and really I think the pandemic sort of even showed us or exacerbated, is this busyness that's causing exhaustion and burnout if you use that term, and really isn't productive at all.

So what he's done in writing this book is he's wanting to offer an alternative to pseudo productivity. It's what he calls slow productivity. It's defined this way. Here's how he defines it. A philosophy of organizing knowledge, work efforts in a sustainable and meaningful manner based on the following three principles. Number one, do fewer things. Number two, work at a natural pace. And number three, obsess over quality. He's saying that if you choose carefully and do fewer things and you do those things really well, actually what you produce will have greater impact and longer lasting impact. That's what he's really contending for. He kind of rejects busyness and says, let's do the right things and do them well. Now you notice in that definition of slow productivity that he uses this term knowledge work and he uses this term knowledge worker throughout the book. And so what is knowledge work? And so he defines it this way. I believe it's in the second chapter, knowledge work is the economic activity in which knowledge is transformed into an artifact with market value through the application of cognitive effort. So members of any church or a Sovereign Grace Church listening to this podcast, think about that in terms of what you do. Certainly it applies into the fields of information technology, healthcare, accounting, finance. You're a teacher, obviously you're using cognitive effort attorneys. It doesn't mean that you're sitting at a desk all day. So when the surgeon did the surgery on my knee, he better be using the cognitive effort that he has been trained to understand when he does my surgery. But he's also using that physical skill that God has gifted him with to repair my patella tendon.

Just as another illustration, I also think there's application for pastors. There's knowledge work that we do. There's cognitive effort that we put into the writing of sermons each and every week that we preach to feed the souls of those in our church. There's cognitive effort put into pastoral care where we're looking to take what we know about the Bible and apply it to someone's life to help them with the issues that they're facing. So I think you can place pastors in the knowledge work category. Of course, how you measure, I don't think that has market value in the way he's talking about it, but it does have spiritual value. It does have eternal value in terms of strengthening souls each and every week through preaching and pastoral care and leadership. So that's just this brief overview about the book that I was very intrigued by.

Benjamin Kreps:

That sound intriguing. I'm looking forward to checking it out. The reality is, as John Piper famously has written, we are not professionals. Pastoral ministry looks more like agricultural metaphors. It looks like shepherding. It looks like planting, watering, not so much the corporate world, but we can learn from the corporate world. There's insights to be gleaned, but it is a secular book like you said. So what are some of the strengths, but also what are some of the weaknesses of the book when it comes to a pastor reading and applying what's in the book?

Mark Prater:

I think just a few strengths. And by the way, I'm going back through this book, reviewing it and looking to glean what I can and apply it to my own work responsibilities. How do I apply this to my pastoral responsibilities at Covenant Fellowship Church and how do I apply this in serving Sovereign Grace in my role? And I'm still in that process, but some things I'm taking away from it. I think what you just said is very good, Ben, that we are not professionals. As scripture talks about, there is that agricultural imagery that's applied to what pastors do, for example. And I think that's right because one of the takeaways is that for pastors being faithful to do what God's called us to do over many years will be the best way to serve your church, the best way to build your church and will impact generations to come.

In other words, for us as pastors, we sometimes can wrestle if we don't see the immediate impact of our ministry. And scripture says that's okay because what we're doing takes time as God works because that's the way God works. You see that throughout scripture. So I think that's an encouragement that is informed biblically that you wouldn't find in the book, but it's a benefit I think from the book.

Another one is I think just thinking about doing fewer things and what does that mean really begs you to ask the question, alright, am I doing the right things? I think that's good for anyone listening to this podcast occasionally to just do a checkup on what you're doing and are you doing the right things? And whenever in doing so, think about what needs to come off your plate. But it also challenges us, and he does this in the book. He says, when you add a new responsibility to your list or to your plate, you've got to think very carefully and evaluate it very carefully and not just the time it will take to get that responsibility done. There's typically work that you have to do in preparation for, and there maybe some work on the back end. So lengthen the time commitment that you typically might think of accomplishing a specific responsibility and that's going to be more accurate and that will tell you whether you should take that responsibility or not. So those are just some of a quick list of benefits. I could list some more, but for the sake of time I won't.

I think in terms of weaknesses, he says this in the book, but this book is not for everyone. So he says, if you don't have some autonomy with how you manage your responsibilities or with your schedule, this book is probably not going to be able to really help you because he's talking to people who have some degree of autonomy in doing that. Maybe not completely, but some. I think the other thing, another weakness I think for pastors in particular is that there are necessary pastoral interruptions that we need to respond to that sort of interrupt our schedule, interrupt our plan, and to be faithful to the people in our church and to our church. We need to accept those invitations or those interruptions with faith and go about serving those that are entrusted to our care. I think it's the same for maybe they're not, although this related to pastoral, there may be a church crisis of some kind that requires leadership and you've got to think about that. That's going to interrupt your sermon planning and the other things that we do. So I don't think the book factors that in quite, and it is a weakness of the book. That's something I think you can still benefit from it, but just be aware of that.

One other mention, Newport doesn't appear to be a Christian. I don't know that for certain, but certainly not a Christian book. I think in terms of thinking about this book, you've got to keep in mind the good sovereignty of God that God does order all of our days, and so we can live content with that when our days don't go as planned, that's a part of God's plan and we can trust him in that. So obviously that theological point is not in the book and therefore a weakness in terms of Christians applying it. So just keep the sovereignty of God in view.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Well, this sounds like this could be a helpful book for extremely busy pastors. I think it is wise to at times reflect on, evaluate our schedules to see if we are doing the most important things and committing our time to those things. Because as you know, Mark, just because we're very busy does not mean that we're being faithful. Our lives can be busy and full of activity and we're failing to give attention to that which is most important. And also a lack of fruitfulness does not necessarily, like you said, mean a lack of faithfulness on the part of a faithful pastor who is feeding, tending, planting, watering by God's word. I think I was reminded when you talked about how it's for knowledge workers. I was reminded of Paul's expectation to Timothy in 2 Timothy chapter 2 when he says to Timothy, and by implication, all pastors "do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." That all takes slowing down thinking, meditating, communicating effectively what God has said in his word. So thanks for the suggestion. I'll look forward to picking up the book and giving it a read. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, you have some encouraging updates for us about some things happening globally, including the adoption of a new full partner church in Sovereign Grace. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

I do. I just want the guys to be aware, we're adding churches to our website. Churches are being added to Sovereign Grace in different parts of the world, and we do have a new Emerging Nations partner church that's a full partner church in Namibia, which is in southern Africa. Josh Kruger Jr. Is planting Sovereign Grace Church in Windhoek, Namibia. Windhoek is the capital city of Namibia. Josh is a native South African and his wife and family moved there several years ago to be missionaries, and as they did that work, he just had this growing desire to plant a Sovereign Grace Church in Windhoek. And so what he did is he came back to the States for a little over a year, year and a half, something like that. He got additional theological training, additional pastoral training, and he did that through taking some pastors college classes as well as getting training at our church in Richmond, Virginia, Kingsway Community Church, where his dad, Josh Kruger Sr. is a bivocational elder. That church is led by Matthew Williams.

And so that church has invested into him and has a lot invested into this church plant. It's another wonderful expression of partnership. He also then went through the ordination process and was formerly ordained as a Sovereign Grace elder and then returned late January, early February of this year to plant Sovereign Grace Church in Windhoek Namibia which we are very excited about. He is just in the early stages of that church plant. So please pray for Josh, if you would, that God would provide for them and draw people to the church. And if anyone is interested in joining that church plant, which is quite a distance to go to Namibia, please contact Josh. Or if you can't get ahold of him, contact Matthew Williams at Kingsway Community Church in Richmond, Virginia. And it wouldn't just be having a heart for maybe that region of Africa, what would really be helpful is if you spoke an additional language than English. Now English is spoken there, but if you spoke for example Afrikaans, that is a common language also spoken there, so just be praying for that.

We're very excited to add that church as a full partner church in Sovereign Grace which now gives us two churches in the southern region of Africa, one in Zambia obviously, and one now in Namibia.

We also added this week a new candidate church in India. That church is Church of Mount Zion, the city. I'm going to warn you, I'm going to mispronounce just in keeping with my reputation. Yeah, it's on brand. The city and state Bhubaneswar is the city and Odisha is the state. Bhubaneswar is the capital city, the largest city in the state of Odisha. That is in northwest India. And that's a church that we've been relating to for quite a long time through the relationship of Erik Rangel. And Erik is the Senior Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Yuma, Arizona, and also through Todd Peterson, who's an elder in El Paso at Ricky Alcantar's Church. Those two men have been traveling there. I think Erik has known the guys there longer, but they've been traveling together for the last few years. The elders of this church got to a place where they really wanted to now pursue adoption in Sovereign Grace, want to pursue partnership. So they are now in the adoption process and the next step for them is for one of those elders or maybe both of them to go through our ordination process and hopefully then be ordained at some point.

Another update is the Philippines, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this because Dave Taylor just sent out today his new monthly missions update for Sovereign Grace. He has a wonderful article about the Philippines, but just to highlight the fact that Bob Kauflin, Devon Kauflin and David Zimmer traveled there on behalf of Sovereign Grace Music and served alongside of Dave Taylor, Riley Spring and then our national leader there, Jeffrey Jo.

And it was just a wonderful time. Just to highlight three events. They had a sort of a mini pastor's conference for 200 people; pastors, their wives, leaders, all of those are from churches that are either pursuing adoption in Sovereign Grace or interested in pursuing adoption in Sovereign Grace. Then Bob and Devon and David did a training seminar for a thousand musicians and vocalists. Just to invest into worship teams there and that was wonderful. And then they had an evening where it was gathering around the gospel, a night of singing, of prayer and of scripture reading that was in Manila. 3,800 people attended that event. So it's wonderful to see the influence of Sovereign Grace Music and how that strengthens our partnership with Sovereign Grace churches. So please read Dave's article. There's a lot more to tell about.

And then next week, Joselo Mercado is traveling to Santa Domingo, Dominican Republic where he will, I think it's April 11th through the 14th or something like that where he will lead a marriage retreat as well as a leader's retreat for Odessa church, a church that he is related to for about 20 years now. So just another way to invest into what is happening in the Caribbean, really in Latin America, which is very exciting.

And then one other thing I really want our pastors to make sure they read in Dave's update is Ed O'Mara's update for the Sovereign Grace Europe Pastor's retreat that happened in the middle of March gathering pastors and leaders from different parts of Europe again to build relationally. There were new men that weren't there last year who are interested in Sovereign Grace, which was encouraging, and that retreat just went very, very well. So read that update.

But I wanted to mention, Ben, you were there in Europe just after that retreat, actually in Warsaw, Poland. Kyle Huber who was at the Europe Pastor's Retreat, stayed in Europe, and you guys went to Warsaw and spent just a few days to invest into our brothers from Belarus. And I thought it would just be good for our pastors to hear what you walked away from with that time. What affected you, what did you learn?

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, thanks for asking. Real quick, if anybody that's checking out the podcast is on Instagram, give Sovereign Grace Churches a follow because there's all kinds of pictures to Illustrate the stories that you're sharing with us. It was so fun to see thousands gathered in the Philippines and singing together. And so that's a wonderful way to get updated.

So I went to Poland. I was invited by Kyle Huber to interact with some brothers there, especially one key couple from Belarus. Kyle for background, Kyle's been going to Belarus for 20 years and has been teaching in a school there. And so we were primarily relating to two of his former students who are marrie but that have fled Belarus. The story is long and it's sad, but Belarus, if you're not aware, is a very difficult country to live in and there's little freedom. And so they had to flee as a young couple. And so we had the honor of interacting with them, spending time with them, building relationally with them, which as you well know, that's what we do in Sovereign Grace. And then the one evening I was able to gather with a small group of young adults that are also from Belarus, also refugees from Belarus for a time of fellowship, studying God's word, getting to know each other. And so what a humbling thing, what an honor to gather with about a dozen, there's about 20 in this group, that could potentially be a church plant core group.

Mark Prater:

Wonderful.

Benjamin Kreps:

And to gather with them was an honor, was a joy. Thankfully there were some interpreters there because I don't speak Russian and there was a lot of Russian going on. So I left Poland deeply encouraged and full of faith about what God is doing in Warsaw and the potential of a church plant there because Warsaw, we learned while we were in Warsaw, we learned the country of Poland by many estimates, has only about 60,000 Christians, evangelical Christians in it. So it would be considered an unreached people group, .3%, of the population are professing evangelicals.

So there is fruitful ministry. The fields are white. And so it was a joy to start to get to know and grow friendship and relationship with the brothers in Poland that are there from Belarus. So it was a real privilege.

Mark Prater:

Thanks for doing that. You're right, Ben. The fields are ripe for harvest. And I want to emphasize that Sovereign Grace is only playing a small part. There's other denominations and organizations who are seeking to do what we're trying to do, which is to fulfill the great commission that our savior has given us. And we want to do all that. We want to play our small part and come alongside those other denominations and organizations to reach the lost with the gospel because a day is coming when he will return, and we want to reach as many people as we can with the good news of Jesus Christ, so that on that day we are all prepared for the judgment that will come and the gospel gives the good news that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus as Paul writes so well in Romans 8:1.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. And it is fascinating. It's joyful to travel, to be with people even though I didn't speak Russian, but as the one guy Philip was speaking through his interpreter who was his wife actually, and he was sharing about the affect of the gospel on his life, having been heartbroken, having to flee their home country, their home, and how God has ministered to him with the gospel. I just sat there and I was like, I don't know words you're saying except for your wife interpreting, but I know you. I know what's going on. And just the heartbeat that we share because of the gospel globally, that transcends culture, language. It's such a sweet thing to experience and so glad that we get to, many of us pastors, in some ways. If you have a chance and if asked, I would encourage the guys to consider participating in this kind of work. So thank you, Mark for the updates. Thank you for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, we were talking before we started recording. It is Holy Week. Of course this will drop into emails after Easter. But we are right in the heart of thinking about all that pertains to holy week and the week that Jesus went to the cross and rose from the dead. And you were describing what you're called a convergence of some things happening in your life that you wanted to talk to us about.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, there has been just a convergence of and a stirring of affections on my heart of two things. The first is the one you just mentioned. This is Holy Week. We are recording this podcast on Maundy Thursday. So just reflecting upon what this day represents as the stories of the Bible tell them; Jesus obviously washing his disciples feet in John 13, the sharing of the Passover meal the night before his death, and in doing so announcing that the new covenant was about to be established through his death. And then obviously tomorrow, good Friday, I think one of the most important days in the Christian calendar as we reflect upon the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ for us who have trusted Christ, for all of our sins on the cross where he bore and received fully the wrath of God. He drank the cup empty of God's wrath on our behalf and it's just a good truth to continue to reflect upon.

And then obviously Resurrection Sunday, that's coming Sunday as we celebrate his resurrection. Three days later, he rises from the dead as our victorious savior and king victorious over sin and over Satan and over death and now rules and reigns. And we await his glorious return. Yes, we do. Those are wonderful truths that we need to not only rehearse in our mind, may they affect us and deepen our understanding of the gospel and our gratitude to Christ for what he has done for us in bringing salvation. So that's one thing.

The thing that's converging with that I mentioned in a podcast a couple episodes ago, that during my knee injury and surgery and now I'm in physical therapy, I've been capturing a number of lessons that I am writing down that I believe the Lord's teaching me, but I've just started to write resolutions. It's a little different way to think about it. And so I'm writing resolutions for my life and ministry in my later years. So I'm reflecting a bit on what happens now with my life and with my ministry from here until I go to glory.

And so there are resolutions I've begun to write. I may talk more about these. I only want to share one today. The first one is related to obviously giving God glory in all of my life. But here's the next one, and this is how I wrote it and it's appropriate to write this during holy week. Here's the resolution: I resolve to keep the gospel central in my life; affections, marriage, home and ministry, for it is the grand storyline of the Bible, the pinnacle of God's redemptive acts, the power of God and the essential message for faith, life, ministry, and witness.

And so anybody listening to that language would hear some of that language is found in our shared value of gospel-centered preaching, gospel-centered doctrine. And as I read that, I just thought I can't improve on that. So I took some of that language and shifted it just a bit. But I want to give credit to obviously, I think Jeff Purswell wrote that for our description of that particular value, it's an important value, what I just said, that we want to keep the gospel central in life and affections and marriage and home and life and ministry. I think everyone listening to this podcast is aware of its knowledge that you have, certainly Sovereign Grace pastors, and really all pastors are trying to build gospel centered churches. And whether you're part of a Sovereign Grace church or not as a member, you want to keep the gospel central. And I'm praying that that knowledge deepens for me in my later years of life and ministry that it never becomes familiar and may it never become familiar with any of us.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. Mark, appreciate your example. The resolution sounds very Edwardian, Jonathan Edwards and his resolutions that are wonderful as well. In that resolution, you talk about how you want to make sure the gospel is central in your affections. And certainly this is a great week for us to deepen our affections for Christ during Holy Week. But talk to us about why you included that in your resolution.

Mark Prater:

Well, I include it in the resolution because I want that. I desire that personally. But it's also what you see in scripture. There is an effect that the gospel has where the knowledge of the gospel, the full story of the gospel, affects you. It stirs and deepens your affections. And I think Paul is a great example. So a couple of passages where you see that: Romans chapter 1 where he writes in verse 14, I am under obligation. Obligation. He feels this obligation, this compulsion both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. And what is the obligation that he feels? Verse 15 says, so I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome for I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, the Jew first and also to the Greek. And so this obligation is something that Paul feels, it's something that has stirred his affection, his zeal for preaching. The gospel has only grown because of the truth of the gospel. And we want, as Jeff Purswell preached a couple of years ago at our pastor's conference, we want to be pastors and we want to be members of churches who have zeal in our life and ministry. And the gospel stirs that kind of zeal.

Just one other example from Paul's life that you find in 1 Corinthians 9, it's just a wonderful example in verse 16; for if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. So he's saying, look, if there's any boasting, it's the gospel. Then he says this, for necessity is laid upon me. He feels this necessity laid upon him. And then he says, woe to me if I do not preach the gospel again. He's feeling this necessity, this compulsion, this urgency, this eagerness to preach the gospel. And he says, if I don't do that, woe to me. That is gospel truth that has a stirred his affections and his zeal. So you see that in scripture. We want to be like that. We need to pray and ask God that the truth of the gospel would never be familiar to us, but that it would bring an obligation, necessity, that we would feel, to share the gospel, to preach the gospel, to pastor people with the gospel to lead our churches into gospel centered lives. And may we do that all for the glory of Christ. And so I'm praying that as I grow older, that that would happen in my life and I wanted to share that during this Holy Week.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent encouragement for us, Mark. It's been well said that when you read the letters of Paul, he just never got over his conversion. He never got beyond daily wonder for the gospel, deepening wonder, it appears, in the gospel. And so it is part of our jobs, our calling as pastors is to continually be working to get the gospel that we know intellectually, to get it down into our hearts so that we do have those kind of passionate affections for Christ and a passion to preach Christ to our people, knowing that the people we love and serve need the gospel more than anything else. So love your example, appreciate your encouragement. I hope everybody is going to have a wonderful Easter. We're anticipating a great weekend coming up, starting tomorrow with our Good Friday service. So thank you, Mark. Thank you for checking out the podcast and we'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches to our executive director. Mark, you're standing.

Mark Prater:

I am standing. Progress. Yeah, I went to physical therapy yesterday and bent it 30 degrees. It was this liberating experience. So I'm doing exercises or I have to take the brace off a couple times a day and bend at 30 degrees. So, progressively, hopefully, we just bend it more over the next several weeks.

Benjamin Kreps:

Praise God. I'm sure there's lots of us out there praying for you and so grateful to see you recovering. So last podcast, you talked about what you're learning through the testing of your faith as you've experienced the trial of severed tendon in your knee and you shared with us some wonderful insights about what God is teaching you and deepening you in your faith and your relationship with him. But on this podcast, you want to talk about a different way that God tests our faith in order to grow us in our faith and dependence on God.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I want to talk about it first of all because I think it reveals how much God loves us in Christ and because of Christ. He loves us, but because of Christ, we are his children. And that love is expressed in so many different ways, so many good ways. But one of those is he tests our faith because he loves us. He wants us to have our faith strengthened in him, which not only builds your relationship with him, but it helps you accomplish the things that he's called you to do as a pastor or as a member of a church or as a church community. And we need faith to trust God to do those things.

And so I've been thinking a little bit about that as it relates to church planting. Anybody that was at the pastor's conference last year heard me share my heart and burden that we would take risks to plant more churches here in the States. And those are the kinds of testing of faith that I want to talk about. He tests our faith in trials. James 1 talks about that, but he also tests our faith for the purpose of growing our faith by taking thoughtful risks to advance the gospel. And that includes church planting. And when it comes to church planting, we begin to think about planting a church. Maybe an eldership does or maybe a church begins to talk about it. We can go to the practicals and that's not a wrong thing to do. Many of the practicals are important. Like do we have a person to plant the church? Do we have a guy who can do it? Do we have a location? Is that a viable location? Do we have the finances? Those kind of questions are important to do, but we sometimes miss things that we see in scripture that we're to do. And those things in particular I think strengthen our faith. They test our faith and strengthen our faith.

So the first one is prayer. And I think a great example is in Acts 13, many people know this passage. In Acts 13:1 it says, "Now there were in the church at Antioch Prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon, who's called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manean, and a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrach, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting", so they're together, they're worshiping, they're praying, they're fasting, "the Holy Spirit said, Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. Then after fasting and praying, they laid their hands on them and sent them off." So that missionary journey that Barnabas and Paul took, the very first one was initiated through the process of prayer and the Spirit made it clear to them what they were to do.

So what did that do to their faith? It must have strengthened their faith. I'm certain it did; that when you pray and then you see God answer those prayers, it strengthens your faith for mission and risk to plant a church. And that's been your experience at Living Hope. You pray because you didn't have a church planter and God brought church planters and a year or two later, I forget what it was, you planted that church. And so your church's faith was strengthened because of calling the church to pray. So that's just one thing we are, I think we're called to do that tests and strengthens our faith.

Here's the other one: that is to remain dependent upon the leading and the help of the Holy Spirit. And that's just true in general I think for ministry because we as pastors are called to do things men can't do. I think it's true for every Christian, we are called to do things that we can't do. We share the gospel, but we can't bring about conversions apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. There's just a great story in Acts 16 that talks about that. This is Acts 16:6. "And then they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia." So the Spirit didn't allow them to go to Asia and share the gospel there. "And when they had come to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them." So they didn't go. "So, passing by Mysia, they went to Troas and a vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing there urging him and saying, Come over to Macedonia and help us. And when Paul had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them."

And it is just a great passage of what we see as the mission advances in Acts and it continues to advance today, is the help and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And so we as pastors and churches want to be just mindful that we have a Spirit led mission and be mindful of what the Spirit may be saying to us and leading us. Now, I'm not saying we're going to have visions like Paul did, but the point is that there's a reliance upon the Spirit as the Spirit leads you in ministry like that, it strengthens your faith, it bolsters your faith. And I think we need that kind of confidence in God, that God will meet us in the risks that we take to plant churches.

And one of the passages that comes to mind for that is in 1 Corinthians chapter 3, now Paul here is talking about divisions in the church. He's not talking about church planting. There's a principle in these verses I think that's very important. So Paul in verse 5 says, "What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field in God's building." So obviously the text is making the point. Look, Apollos and Paul are just men who planted and watered. It is God who gives the growth.

And I think that principle of God giving the growth applies to church planting because it's repeated twice in that passage I just read. The point that Paul is making is that God gives the growth and God gives the growth as we send our best. It's risky; what will happen to the church and will we grow back again? Will our finances grow back again? We need to have faith that God will give the growth, but also for that plant. Will God give growth to that plant? Well, you're sowing, you're watering, you're planting, but God will give the growth. And so I think those are just steps of that we are to take in having confidence of God, steps of faith, of having confidence of God that he will give the growth. And so as I was just thinking through this a little bit more, you and I just had a recent conversation about your experience in sending out many of your best and what's happened since then. So I want you to tell that story, Ben.

Benjamin Kreps:

Oh, I'm happy to. I think your encouragement is helpful. There's lots of guys I'm sure would love to plant a church and just don't see how that could happen. And I would echo what you're saying. Here's a significant, perhaps the most significant step you'll ever take in church planting. Start a prayer meeting, start a prayer meeting and just begin praying about it. I think there was a general consensus about where we would plant. We ended up planting where we thought we would. But even in that as we started praying and I was encouraging the church, I was saying, let's just come with empty hands. Let's be willing to be surprised by God giving us or leading us in ways that we don't even anticipate that we can't even imagine yet. And so he did it in a number of ways. But even just beginning with that posture of dependence and willingness to follow the Spirit's leading, I think what you were saying is really important.

And so yeah, we did pray as a church in various ways. We had a prayer meeting where some people committed themselves to praying corporately. People were praying on Sundays, people praying in their families and so forth. Six months later, our church planter, Jeremy Hetrick walks in the door with his family, and talk about faith-building to have that kind of quick response. Now, God, of course, is sovereign over his mission and he decides where and how these kinds of things happen or if they happen at all. And it should be clear that if a church never plants a church that no one should feel condemned and that many churches will never plant a church. There are various ways, I think when you read the story of Antioch in which churches can participate in church planting; praying for other churches and church plants by perhaps sending people from their church or finances to help the church. And certainly through our giving, hopefully 10% to Sovereign Grace, we are participating in those church plant grants, and so just to establish that.

But for us, we prayed, Jeremy arrived, we began to evaluate, I call him a unicorn. And because he had been previously ordained in Sovereign Grace and had served as a pastor, had experience, was trained, an interesting guy. So when we planted, we did so in faith, we had over a hundred people over in this location or near it that could potentially be part of the church plant. We initially said we can't send everyone. I mean there seems to be a limit around 65 is what we thought. And then just at one elder meeting we decided, you know what? Let's just take that limit right off. Let's just go all in and for the sake of Jesus, for the sake of the strength in planting and strength in that church. And so we did send over a hundred people, a quarter of our membership. So when we did it, we were practical. We wanted to be wise. I like how you called it thoughtful risk. Of course we don't want to be foolish, even though sometimes people might think we look foolish in our willingness to sacrifice. I'm going to be thoughtful. We need to care not only for the people that are leaving and the people that are staying of course. And so we endeavored to do all of that and practically ran the numbers.

I think one of the most helpful things, too, is the church planting group and the resources that were supplied. They just held our hands. So if anybody's out there going, well, this all just feels kind of in the ether and theoretical and how do you do it? I'm like, I didn't know how to do it. And the church planting group had all the resources and guidance that we needed so that now on the other side of this church plant, I feel confident, much more confident about it, let's do it again. Now I know what it looks like. So my faith is only grown in that. And in fact, we are evaluating two men who just became pastoral residents on our team and we feel very hopeful that they're going to be leading the next church plant. So potentially plurality.

But in immediately following the church plant, I felt a deep sense of sorrow and loss and I would mutter to myself here and there, what have I done? What have I done to this church? And so that's part of it as well. There's highs and lows and there was a conspicuous decline in attendance immediately following the plant. We took 75 chairs out of our auditorium and planned a budget that had a deficit in it for this upcoming year. Thank God we had some funds to cover that kind of thing. I can report back and say, what's happening seven months later? All the chairs are back in. You wouldn't be able to tell that we have planted. No one would guess we sent a quarter of the church away if they were visiting for the first time. God is providing in ways, the church has always excelled to the grace of giving. And so that continues, thank God, even additional gifts that have helped. And so we are not struggling financially. God has been faithful. We decided to bank everything on the faithfulness of God. That's the way I would put it when I communicated to the church I serve, and God has been faithful. I told the church, I feel a sense of confidence that God's not going to take us out because we risk to see the advance of the gospel in central Pennsylvania.

And there are so many promises connected to giving. I know sometimes guys get a little nervous around promises connecting to giving because of the prosperity gospel, they don't get to have our promises. We get to have those rich and wonderful promises that God will be faithful to us when we give. He will provide, he will replenish our seed for sowing. And so just leaning into all those marvelous promises to build our faith the days ahead. So we are a church now that we're into church planting. It's kind of addictive. So we full well plan to do it again. We're planning to do it again. We keep praying. We started a new prayer meeting this year with focus on corporate. We want to grow in corporate prayer. And so we're seeing a lot more people coming out for prayer meetings and things like that.

So yes, thoughtful risk. It means you're in for an adventure, but following Jesus oftentimes will look like an adventure, just one step in front of the other depending on him, guided by the Spirit. Who knows what will come, but all of it will glorify him and it'll be for our good. So our faith has been tested. There were moments of panic in the whole process, but we come out on the other side strengthened. We have been strengthened in our faith and resolve to endeavor, to take thoughtful risk for Jesus.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, amen. It's a wonderful story. And there are other pastors in Sovereign Grace who could tell similar stories. The pastoral team at Cornerstone Church in Knoxville, they've planted two churches and sent out their best. And God replenished. It's been our experience at Covenant Fellowship Church and church planting over the years Sovereign Grace Church of Orange where Eric Turbedsky is, they planted in Santa Ana and God replenished. So there are just stories of God's faithfulness. So whether it's the stories in scripture, that couple that I read, or the stories that we hear today like the one you just shared, they're intended to strengthen our faith, to test our faith, and to strengthen our faith so that we will take thoughtful risks to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it's still fun first of all, it's just fun to do it. It is an adventure, but it is also God's love to us that he would deepen our faith to send our best and take risks to advance the gospel. He loves that and he's going to bless it.

So I want to end on that. Just let us take thoughtful risks, praying and in dependence upon the Spirit to lead us. And may it lead to the planting of churches. It's not just planting churches. I've said this over and over again. It is reaching those who don't know Christ in that area with the good news of Jesus Christ.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. There's risk and faith for those who send. We've experienced a sacrifice and perhaps even more faith and risk for those who go. But in both of these categories, those who have gone and those who have remained, all of our faith has been strengthened in various ways. And so I think we are more mature now and more eager to engage in the mission of Jesus. So thank you, Mark, for your encouragement. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, you are always in your office standing and yet you are sitting for this podcast and there is a reason why, that you're going to update us about.

Mark Prater:

There is a reason why and it's why we skipped a week on the podcast as well. Let's see, about three weeks ago, maybe four weeks ago, I was at the church, had an evening meeting, was walking down a darker staircase and just missed the last step. And I ruptured my patella tendon in my left knee. So the injury was no athletic move at all. It was just, I missed the last step and the only way to fix that is to have surgery. And so I had surgery two weeks ago, today actually on the recording of this podcast. This is a Thursday. And that surgery went as expected, went well and have the gauze off and it looks like the incision is healing well and we'll start physical therapy either later this week or next week. So I've been a little bit out of action because of that. In God's sovereign kindness, he allowed me to have a knee injury that required surgery and that's why I'm sitting down with my left knee stretched out in front of me.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, so glad the surgery went well. One of the wonderful things though, and I remember you even talking about this right after you experienced just some private conversation after you experienced this injury, was expressing your gratitude for what God's doing in your life through this trial. And actually you are not wasting your trial, you're not wasting your suffering. You are learning lessons in your trial and you wanted to share some of those with us.

Mark Prater:

I do want to share some of those lessons and it is amazing to me how God has used my little suffering, and I say little intentionally because people suffer so much more than I do, this little suffering to deepen my gratitude to God and my love for him and my treasuring of Christ.

And so I'm trying to capture that and learn from this all I can. These are soul lessons. It's a category that I have. So first one is deeper gratitude for the wisdom of God and how he uses suffering. We know those verses from James 1:2-4 where he says, rejoice when you face trials of many kinds for they test your faith. And that's important because faith gets tested, mine's been tested, and that leads to endurance essentially, is what he's saying. Steadfastness. And it's used to build you up in God and in Christ.

And that's been my experience through this little trial over the last several weeks, just marveling at God's wisdom and how he uses trial and suffering to test, and in my case to deepen. I think for most of us to deepen our faith in him so that we will not only trust him more, but we will treasure him more. And if that's the only lesson I have from this trial, there are others, that was worth it right there because I do treasure him more and love him more and am grateful for this trial. So that's the first one.

Second, deeper gratitude for Christians whose suffering is much worse and are examples to me as I've been walking through this time experiencing pain and discomfort, that kind of thing. I'm thinking of people who have suffered or are suffering much more than I have. And I look at them and I think of them and they are such examples to me. One of them would be my friend Alan Redrup, for example, who passed away about a year ago. And how he walked through his final days was just a wonderful example to me.

Here's a third one, deeper gratitude for the word of God. The word of God has, there've been moments where I've clung to it. So before my surgery I was experiencing a bit of fear. And in that moment I was just praying. And the Lord directed me to Isaiah 41:10 where he says, fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you by my righteous right hand. And so that's been a verse I've memorized. It's a verse I was telling myself over again, speaking the truth to myself. And he helped me. And that's because he has revealed himself to us in scripture. And he calls us not to fear because he's with us and he will help us and strengthen us. So just a deeper gratitude for the word of God, a deeper gratitude for my salvation.

I have had moments over the last couple of weeks where I'm in tears when I'm remembering when he first called me to himself. I don't believe I was saved in that moment. It was a process for me. But there was this undeniable moment that I was experiencing something I'd never experienced before that did lead to my conversion and faith in Christ. It was him reaching out to me, not me reaching out to him and he saved me. And so as I went into surgery thinking if I don't make it through this, I have eternity because of Christ only, only because he reached out to me first in mercy. He saved me and that had nothing to do with me. If anything, I was resisting him. So I have a deeper gratitude for the fact that he saved me.

Next lesson, deeper gratitude for the cross. So the pain that I've experienced and continue to experience, at least to some degree is minuscule when I compare it to the pain and suffering that Jesus suffered for all of our sins on the cross. And I'm talking about physical pain. He suffered physical pain, but the emotional pain and then the pain of receiving all the full fury of the wrath of God for all our sins. And the effect that's had on me, Ben, is I just stand back and I treasure Jesus more. I worship him more because that is a great act of sacrificial love that is beyond comparison and nothing like we will ever know. So grateful for the cross.

Next is deeper gratitude for the theologically rich songs that Sovereign Grace Music writes and produces. There have been some of the Sovereign Grace songs, especially from the Psalms project, that have carried me through this time. Psalm 1:21, Psalm 90, Everlasting God, has just carried me and I've sung those. Jill and I have sang those together and they just have strengthened me. So grateful to Sovereign Grace Music and for the kind of lyrics that are being written by members of our churches that are affecting me, helping me and so many others in suffering and trial.

Here's another lesson, deeper gratitude for common grace. You're aware of common grace, but when you experience it through doctors and nurses and medical technicians and through even drugs that can help you get through this, you're just aware of God's common grace that we don't deserve and how he uses even unbelievers in our lives to fulfill his purposes in our lives. And again, I marvel at the wisdom of God and using common grace for his people.

And then lastly, but not lastly, is deeper gratitude for my wife Jill. She's been amazing through this. She just embraces it. She knows how to care for me. She does it well. She is busy, she is active and she's doing an amazing job. I tell her multiple times every day how grateful I am to her. I look for specific ways to encourage her. I was just encouraging her this morning and we've walked through this together as a married couple and we've become closer as a married couple. It's unique. God can use suffering experiences to grow you as a married couple, but he does use suffering. When you walk through it together as a married couple, it brings you closer together. So I'm grateful to God for my marriage. I'm grateful to God for Jill.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. Thanks for sharing these lessons that you're learning. I love that Isaiah 41:10 promise. I love as well that it's in the context of verse eight where God says, you, Israel, my servant Jacob, whom I have chosen the offspring of Abraham, my friend. So as you're experiencing God's friendship and his promises, thanks for modeling for us, a theologically informed trial, theologically informed suffering, cross centeredness in your suffering, applying the promises of God to your suffering. It's wonderful. And these are sweet lessons that you're sharing with us. You also have a couple of practical lessons that you've learned as well that you wanted to share.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, this is a list I've just started. I hope this, I believe this list will grow in the coming days a bit more, but a couple of just practical lessons for me. The first one is slow down. I'm a very active guy. I like doing a lot of things. I like getting a lot of things done. I'm that kind of a guy. I think that's been the most difficult part of this trial for me is not being active and God is slowing me down. So I believe he's teaching me to slow down and reevaluate what I'm doing so I can focus on those things that only I can do in this role in serving Sovereign Grace, which is a process started a little over a year ago anyway, but this is a unique timing of the Lord I believe.

And before this injury, I pre-ordered Cal Newport's book Slow Productivity. And it was just released on March 5th. And I've got it. I'm about halfway through it and I'm learning a lot from a practical standpoint from that book. So the Lord, the day after I injured my knee, I felt like the Lord was saying, Mark, yes, I'm doing this so you can slow down. And then I get this book, Slow Productivity, which has really affected me. I'll talk more about that book in a future podcast.

But here's one more lesson then I'm done. Don't measure effectiveness by busyness, rather measure effectiveness by doing fewer things well that have greater impact. And I think I've been in the mode of sometimes measuring effectiveness by my busyness and the Lord is showing me there's nothing wrong with being active and working hard, but you need to do fewer things and you need to do them well because those things will have greater impact than busyness will. And so that's another lesson I'm going to try to apply to my life.

Benjamin Kreps:

Good. Well hopefully there is some rest happening while you're sitting in your chair in your office, unable to go anywhere. We're so grateful for all of the hard work that you have served us with in Sovereign Grace over the last decade and grateful that there is a God-centered perspective, of course there is with you, in this trial. I think the older I get and the more I read the Bible, the more I just see so clearly in scripture, God's utter sovereignty through other scriptures and what a joy it is to rest, to be able to say, actually my days are in your hands. He was not surprised when you missed the last step and he's working it for your good and to teach you and to grow you, and to bring you into sweeter and deeper fellowship with him. So thanks for sharing all of that with us, Mark. We'll be praying for you. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here, Lord willing, unless maybe Mark falls down another set of steps next week. Bye for now.