VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, those checking out the podcast are aware that in Sovereign Grace we have seven shared values that we hold in common; theological convictions that call for regular and careful study and growing in our understanding of these theological convictions. One of those being that we are continuation in our pneumatology and you wanted to talk about that.

Mark Prater:

I did. That's one of our shared values. Continuation is pneumatology, and I want to talk about it because we don't want to just be in name continuation, we want to be it in name and in practice as well. And just really want to remind pastors or members of our churches that are listening to this of the language in the New Testament that speaks about our pursuit of the gifts in particular. So in 1 Corinthians 14 verse 1, "Pursue love and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy". And then in second Timothy chapter one, Paul is writing to Timothy. And in chapter one verse five, he's reminding Timothy of his sincere faith. And then he says to Timothy in the next verse, verse six, "For this reason (or because of your sincere faith), for this reason, I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God..."

So that language of earnestly desiring and fanning into flame, that is active language that exhorts us to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts. In other words, they need our intentional pursuit and we need to be reminded of that. That's what Paul is doing in 2 Timothy 1, he's reminding him of his sincere faith and then he's reminding him to fan into flame the gifts that God has given him. And that's so important to us because we need the work and the power of the Holy Spirit at work in the members of our churches and the pastors of our churches because it's the spirit that empowers our gospel ministry and gospel mission. And we will do that best when all of the gifts that God has given every member of a Sovereign Grace church are being used for the common good as it says in 1 Corinthians 12:7, to serve others. And it is an expression of loving others because we are pursuing love. So it's just something that I want to remind our pastors of, that you would be intentional to remind the members of your church to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. I think many pastors can sometimes, if examining life and practice in the church, find themselves in position of affirming being continuatiionist, but practically as cessationist, because the gifts aren't functioning in all their breadth. And so this is a much needed and helpful encouragement. Mark, you wanted to recommend some resources for us because like I said, this calls for our diligent cultivation and study and it includes not a narrow view of the work of the spirit in the gifts, but also a broad view of the spirit's work. And so you had some recommendations for us.

Mark Prater:

I do. I do. And I have these recommendations because I just want to encourage our pastors to make reading on the person and work of the Holy Spirit, just a regular part of your reading diet. I try to do that myself. I need to be reminded of what I'm reminding you of in this podcast. And I think our continuationist pneumatology is best understood within our broader pneumatology, as you just said, Ben. So my first recommendations are really in that broader pneumatology category.

First, would be Jeff Purswell's Systematic Class on Pneumatology that he's taught for I believe two or three years now. And it is outstanding. I just haven't been exposed to anything better. Hopefully that'll be in print form someday as Jeff writes all of that. But if you haven't been to that class, it is worth the money. It is worth the time. It is worth the disruption of your schedule. So that would be Jeff's pneumatology class. That's already happened this year. So you can attend it in the PC class next year.

The next recommendation is one that we've known for years, Wayne Gruden's chapters on the person and work of the Holy Spirit, including his chapters on the gifts of the Spirit. They're outstanding. Another book that was published just about three years ago, if I remember right, I read it a couple years ago, just entitled The Holy Spirit by Gregg Allison and Andreas Köstenberger and they give a favorable treatment for the gifts. So it was an encouraging book to read in that regard. This is a classic most guys have on their shelf: Keep in Step with the Spirit by J.I. Packer. He just looks at the broad work of the spirit, obviously there.

And then one that's a little bit more academic in some sense: He Who Gives Life by Graham Cole. It's a good overall theology of the Holy Spirit or Pneumatology. And reading him, I don't know whether he's a cessationist or continuation, I would guess he's a cessationist, but he doesn't completely dismiss the gifts for today. I thought he expounded that fairly well. So those are some resources on the broad category.

Let me give you some resources that may aim a little bit more at the spiritual gifts. And as I say that one of the things we have to do when we teach on this as pastors is make sure that we keep the gifts connected to the gospel and the work of Christ in our lives. That's really, really important. In fact, just the way that 1 Corinthians is structured is a little bit of evidence of that. So Paul begins in 1 Corinthians 2:2, and he says, "I decided to know nothing among you except (the answer) Jesus Christ and him crucified." So he goes on and he talks about divisions in the church, sexual immorality, lawsuits among believers, food offereings, he talks about the spiritual gifts in each of those topics. What is the one thing that he knows? It is Christ and him crucified. And then he begins to wrap up the letter in chapter 15 saying, "I delivered to you that of which is of first importance". He says that in 1 Corinthians 15:3. And is it the gifts that are at first importance? No. He writes that Christ died for our sins. And he goes on and talks about his resurrection, his appearing, his ascension as everyone knows.

So, keep the gifts connected to the gospel and to the work of Christ among his people. And one of the things that J.I. Packer says in Keeping in Step With the Spirit is that he says that the Holy Spirit shines a spotlight upon Christ in that regard. And that's biblical. Jesus says in John 16:14, "he will glorify me". "He" meaning the Holy Spirit, by revealing to his people what Jesus has taught, which is found in His word. So that's just real important that we keep that connected because that can be a sort of Pentecostal charismatic error to put too much emphasis on the gifts and, I think unintentionally, functionally separate the gifts from the gospel. So when teaching it or talking to your folks about it, be purposeful to do that. So just some recommendations on the gifts. I mentioned Gruden's chapters on the gifts, those are outstanding.

Showing the Spirit by DA Carson, as you well know, is an exposition of 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. It's a very good book. And The Holy Spirit and the Spiritual Gifts by Max Turner. A little more academic but accessible and really good. Gruden has a book that he published a long time ago just on The Gift of Prophecy, another recommendation. So just some recommendations regarding pneumatology in general, the person and work of the Holy Spirit, and the gifts. And just reminder to guys to pick one of those up or order if you don't have it. And make that a regular part of your reading diet, not just to prepare for a sermon series, but to have it influence you as you lead your church to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent, helpful. Mark. One of the things I love about that, we have our seven shared values, but we also have our seven shaping virtues which is exactly what you were talking about. The fruit of a gospel culture, which is found in our shaping virtues. It informs, regulates, the way that we go about this. So I want to serve because I've been served by Christ and God has given me gifts to serve and so I eagerly serve but with humility, with discernment, gratefulness, not haughty or arrogant as some. If you can imagine an arrogant continuation, I think there might be one or two. But it's wonderful that these things are in place to help to apply the gospel to our theology and live out our theological convictions in a way that glorifies God and expresses love for others.

So Mark, thanks for your encouragement and recommendations. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, there's been updates over the last few years on this podcast and various places about the expanding global connections and work that God has given us. But we care about global missions, not merely because we want to see Sovereign Grace get bigger or because it's interesting work, we have received a charge from the Lord Jesus Christ. And you wanted to talk about that.

Mark Prater:

I did. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who gave us that charge. And some might think the great commission, there's the charge there. But I want to just read Acts chapter 1, verse 8. As you know, this is right before his ascension. And he says, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. And Jesus said that before his ascension. And we've seen those words come true. The gospel has advanced throughout Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and now to the ends of the earth. We're seeing that in our day. So what Jesus called us to do, he gave us the power of the Spirit to accomplish and he sends us to do it. And that's why our small family of churches gets to play a small part in advancing the gospel throughout the world because we want to see more people come to know our Jesus and know him as Lord and Savior.

And I'm so grateful for how pastors in Sovereign Grace are working to advance the gospel. One of the things that's so interesting to me, anybody that's read Acts knows this, it's nothing brilliant. But as Acts develops, what you see is that partnerships are formed so that they can advance the gospel together. So Jesus gives these words to the 11 that are standing there and they go about advancing the gospel, but they form partnerships with men and other churches who are their coworkers. Paul becomes an apostle and he forms partnerships and churches working together, represented by men who are coworkers with the original 11. And with Paul, they advanced the gospel throughout the world. And that's still happening today. Not in big apostolic ministry. I don't mean that at all, of course, but churches partnering together to advance the gospel throughout the world.

And it's something that we get to enjoy in Sovereign Grace. It makes building relationally only sweeter as we get to know and serve brothers and sisters and churches throughout the world. And what I just said, we've all heard that before, but brothers, we can't take that for granted. What we have is precious, it's biblical, and it allows us to accomplish what Jesus sent his Spirit to do in continuing the mission that he has given us. So it's a glorious mission. It's a glorious cause, and the joy of it all is we get to do it together in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. I'm so grateful, even as you're talking, so grateful that Jesus gave his original disciples the charge of Matthew 28 and Acts 1 because as they were faithful and invested in other men and transferred that charge to successive generations, that's the human reason why we're Christians here in America. So grateful that we get to actually join in that heritage of global mission is deeply gratifying. And you actually have some updates for us about pastors in the States and working with churches across the world.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I just want to give a few updates of what's happening throughout the world. I haven't done that for a while. And as I do that, I want to illustrate how partnership in Sovereign Grace is happening. So you may be aware or not aware that recently we've added five churches from Pakistan as candidate churches in Sovereign Grace who are now pursuing a partnership, full partnership, with Sovereign Grace. And those five churches are led by men that we've built relationally with for years. And when I say we, I mean pastors in Sovereign Grace. So through our partnership with TLI Training Leaders International, there've been several Sovereign Grace pastors who traveled to the Middle East to sort of a safe neutral country where the Pakistani brothers joined them. And they went through several years of theological training. Men like Scott Crook made many trips. And then Greg Dirnberger and Dave Quilla and many more guys that are in the Midwest Northwest region. Scott's now in the Mid-Atlantic region, but the Midwest Northwest region, many of the pastors there have made trips to serving those pastors. And Dave Quila continues to serve the brothers there in Pakistan.

So it's another illustration of how partnership is working in Sovereign Grace to theologically equip pastors in Pakistan. And five of those are now going to pursue ordination as the next step to move from a candidate church to a full partner church. So it's just wonderful that we actually have five candidate churches in Pakistan right now. Just for the sake of security, I'm not going to use names or get very specific, but we have a Sovereign Grace missionary in Southeast Asia who's advancing the gospel there. And he just had an outreach last week, sort of a community picnic event where the community where he is at was gathered. There were opportunities to share the gospel. It does seem that there's interest in the gospel there and maybe even conversions; time will tell. But it's another illustration of how the gospel is advancing in areas where they've not even heard of Christ before. And the partnership aspect of that is this missionary was sent from a Sovereign Grace local church who continues to be involved in caring for him and his family, and that local church's region is involved in supporting him and caring for that family. So again, it's a wonderful expression of partnership and how the gospel is advancing in Southeast Asia.

Next month in March, Bob Kauflin will travel to Manila. Dave Taylor will travel from Sydney to Manila and join Jeffrey Jo where Sovereign Grace Music with Sovereign Grace Churches Philippines will have three different events and one of those events already has over 3000 people registered for it. And so those are opportunities to gather people. Many of them may be Christians, many of them may not be Christians, to hear the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that's another expression of partnership, a partnership between Sovereign Grace Music and Sovereign Grace Churches. So Sovereign Grace Music isn't just about music. They want to see music help advance the mission of the gospel. And they aid Sovereign Grace Churches in doing that. In this case, Sovereign Grace Churches, Philippines.

Okay, one more illustration. Jacobis Aldana, who is the senior pastor of Iglesia Biblica Soberana Gracia in Santa Marta, Columbia, a church he planted eight years ago and is a candidate church in Sovereign Grace Jacobis, a very good pastor, very good leader, is working his way through our ordination process. He actually traveled to Bolivia to serve David Del Castillo's church, Iglesia Gracia Soberana. They had a big church retreat and Jacobis went there to serve and to preach.

And what's so cool about that is you're seeing partnerships that we've enjoyed in the States for a long time. They're beginning to form and build relationally throughout Latin America. And that's just one story, could tell you many more of how that's happening. So just a few stories and updates of what God is doing through our small family of churches throughout the world, and how partnership is such a vital part of that. And let's remember why we're doing it. We're doing it to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, that people who need the good news, just like we needed the good news, would hear it be born again and come to know Christ as their Lord and Savior, all for his glory.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes and amen. It is wonderful to hear those updates. What a delightful charge that we have been given, that we get to participate in partnership and in the advance of the gospel to the ends of the earth. And so grateful for the many pastors in Sovereign Grace that eagerly and sacrificially travel, leave their families, to serve alongside brothers across the globe. So thanks for the updates and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, those who follow the podcast know that a couple of weeks ago, the leadership team had a retreat with the regional leaders, and that went very well by all accounts. We have excellent regional leaders and this was an opportunity for the leadership team and regional leaders to interact. One of the topics that you discussed that you talked about was the topic of biblical counseling, and you have some thoughts for us about that?

Mark Prater:

Yeah. First of all, I agree with you. We have the best regional leaders here in the states, and I thank God for them. And one of the benefits of doing a retreat with them is we really do learn from them. We get updates from the region, and then we just have these conversations about how can we best serve the churches of Sovereign Grace. That's why the leadership team exists. And so the aim of that whole discussion is to find ways to continue to serve our churches because we love our pastors and we love our churches and want to serve them well. That's the primary task of the leadership team.

And we got into this conversation that was very fascinating regarding basically how the therapeutic culture today can impinge upon the church a bit, and that can have some effects, obviously. But let me talk about what I mean by the therapeutic. It's an age of expressive individualism. I know Trueman uses that term. And you're finding that people, like the therapeutic in the past, are looking for solutions to their problems outside of themselves and not looking first inside where we know that indwelling sin still remains. And we have that fight, the mortification of sin, and how the word of God and the grace of God can be applied to that to really help you grow.

One of the quotes I read to the regional leaders came from a book called Digital Liturgies by Samuel Jackson. He referenced there a paper written by Wilfred McClay. Wilfred McClay is more of an academic. I probably wouldn't recommend you read the paper because it's just the scholarly work that I had to struggle through, but I thought he made a really good point. The title of the article is very interesting, "The Strange Persistence of Guilt", and the sort of the overall observation is there's a strange persistence of guilt that lingers in our culture, and this is sort of the summary that Samuel James gives of that article. McClay is basically saying there's this persistent sense of guilt in our society that has occurred for two competing reasons. And this is what James writes. First, there is the cyclization of guilt and shame. Few ideas enjoy such uniformity of consensus as the idea that any sense of moral failing or despair of one's flaws must be reinterpreted In therapeutic terms, you are not guilty. You are simply held to oppressive standards by your community. Your shame tells you nothing except that you need to actualize your authentic self and do whatever your heart tells you.

Now, here's the second observation. However, despite such therapeutic answers to guilt and shame, modern people do not appear more at peace or reconcile with themselves. Instead, contemporary culture is brimming with unrest, anxiety, and yes, even a profound kind of guilt. And so that's kind of the therapeutic soup that we can be living in a bit that the folks in our churches can be affected by. We as pastors can be affected by.

And one of the effects that we're seeing of that is we find more people that are saying, I need a therapist, or I need a counselor, meaning a therapist or counselor outside of the local church. And of course, let me be very clear about this, there is a place for therapists and counselors outside of the church, but we are concerned that what is getting replaced is the important role of biblical counseling that a pastor is called to provide for his churches, to care for his church as a shepherd. Because that's the wonderful metaphor in scripture, isn't it? That describes that shepherd imagery is used to define us as pastors, as men who are called to care for their flocks. And that's so important.

And we are going to talk about this I think at the Pastors' conference, probably do a breakout session on this topic where we want to try to serve our pastors to help them maintain the priority of biblical counseling in the church so we don't lose that, because we will only find hope in God's word. It's biblical counseling. It's God's word that is living and active that transforms us. And we as shepherds have to help our people apply God's word to their many difficult situations and the grace of God to those difficult situations so that the power of God can transform them and actually bring them hope. And when you talk about grace, you point them to the one who has paid for all of our shame and guilt. There's only one who has done that. And so there's only one who can offer hope to live a life without shame and guilt. And that is Jesus Christ and his finished work in the gospel.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes. That's helpful to be thinking about this topic. I had a guy in our church, young aspiring guy who's going to a conservative Bible college near us who asked me if I had a therapist because one of his teachers told him that every pastor should have their own personal therapist. So this stuff is ubiquitous, whether it's social media, Google ads constantly promoting, you need a therapist, here's the number to call at therapy. This is going to help you. And that's what the people in our churches are breathing each day.

Mark Prater:

That's true. Yeah. In fact, Ben, you just got back from a week at the Pastors College where you intentionally registered and went to attend the pastoral ministry class, which you took many years ago when you were a PC student, but you took it again. So talk about why you took it again and what the effect was on you this week.

Benjamin Kreps:

Took it again because it's been 11 years, and I remember sitting in that class with CJ, being deeply encouraged, edified, strengthened and equipped. But as I told my church last Sunday at the end of the service when I informed them that Kevin Busch and I were heading to Louisville to the class, here's the issue is that I've leaked. I've leaked what I've learned. So spent the past week learning from CJ, I can think of no finer pastor to learn from about pastoral ministry other than CJ, so a deeply edifying, week; invigorating, recalibrating. I came back from that class with a more fervent desire to be a faithful shepherd.

And to that end, I wanted to share a quote that CJ shared with us. CJ had many fine quotes, but this one affected me from Thomas Oden where he says, It is no small effort to which we set ourselves. The task about which we are seeking to think integrally is none other than learning properly to shepherd the body of Christ. One would expect physicians or attorneys to have grasped an integral theory of their task, some overarching conception of their official duty before beginning their practice. And yes, we pray they do, but in ministry in the last decade, some have thought it acceptable to proceed without any such general conception or overarching vision. Here's the money: yet the importance of the office of pastor still quietly pleads with us to think with extraordinary care about the better and worse ways in which that office, shepherding, might be conceived and practiced. And so I heartily agree with you about biblical counseling, that our call to shepherd the people of God takes great care and thoughtfulness. And we need to know the flock. We need to be students of the soul in order to care for the flock. This takes great wisdom, it takes courage in difficult moments, but God provides all that we need in that. And so, amen, may we grow as a family of churches that have pastors who are eager to counsel the people of God with the word of God.

Mark Prater:

Amen. Amen. Thanks for going to that class, Ben. It's such a good class. I'm going to take it again. It's a reminder for all of us as pastors that as Ben said, we leak and we need to have ongoing training. And I couldn't recommend any better place to go than our Pastors College. And so an encouragement to guys, I know it costs money, I know it requires time, I know it affects things locally. Make all those sacrifices because you will become a better pastor by just being equipped and not just being equipped, as Ben said, but rejuvenated for pastoral ministry.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. Excellent. Well, I so appreciate, and I'm sure I could speak for most, if not all of us, we appreciate the careful thought that you and the leadership team and the regional leaders are giving to this important area of addressing the therapeutic world, which is constantly intruding upon our churches, living their lives in this world, surrounded by this kind of language and jargon, and so grateful that you guys are thinking about how to serve us, equip us, strengthen us, to counsel the people of God with the word of God, which is what they need most. So thanks, Mark, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, as we record this, you just got back within the last couple of hours from the retreat that we talked about in the last podcast with the leadership team and the regional leaders. And at that retreat you were telling me about how you shared some encouragement from the scriptures with the regional leaders and you wanted to share that with the rest of us.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I do. Thank you, Ben. And if you're listening to this podcast or read it and you prayed for that retreat, thank you for praying. It was an amazing retreat. God did more than we could think to ask in prayer. He was just very, very good. Came away thanking God for our nine US regional leaders, these men who labor to serve our pastors and churches, those in their geographic region. They are remarkable men that I was actually writing about in my journal this morning, how I thanked God for them and just am stunned that I get to labor alongside of them to serve a small family of churches that we dearly love. So that's one of the effects. I'm walking away with gratitude for the regional leaders. I shared with them some encouragement from 2 Corinthians 11 verses 28 and 29, which I'll read here in a moment.

We had each of the regional leaders just give updates and as they gave updates about their region, just walking through the churches they care for, what was clear is that these are men who carry those churches and those pastors and wives on their heart. They do. They love the churches and they love the pastors. And it made me think about 2 Corinthians 11 verses 28 and 29, where Paul writes, "And apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I'm not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?" And let me just read verse 30. "If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness." And so it's interesting to me that that's what he boasts in because just before writing among other things verses 23 through 27, he just lists a number of ways that he specifically suffered for the gospel.

He was beaten with rods, he was stoned. He received the 40 lashes a number of times he was shipwrecked. He was in a number of different specific kind of dangers that he lists. He went days without sleep and without food. And I just thought, boy, if that was my ministry experience, I might boast in those things. Hey, remember that time when we got shipwrecked? He doesn't boast about that. Yeah, got bit by a snake, viper grabbed me, is not what he boasts about and not the thing that he's carrying on his heart. The thing that he is kind of burdened by or certainly carrying on his heart is this daily anxiety he has for all the churches. It reflects his love for the churches he served. And you see that in our regional leaders. But I think this has local pastoral implications as well because local pastors are shepherds, meaning that they not only know their folks, the members of their church, they carry them on their heart.

And when they're going through suffering and they're going through trial and they're going through difficulty, they're right there with 'em. There is that daily anxiety in that sense, in the right sense of anxiety, of carrying people on your heart. And that's the mark of a true pastor. And it's that he calls a weakness because those things reveal his weakness and therefore he boasts in his weakness and as a result, that's what he wants the Corinthians to know. I mean, this is a world-class scholar, Paul. This is a very gifted man. This is a man who suffered for the gospel, but the thing he's talking about here is his weakness. And I think we as pastors need to adopt that mindset, the boasting of our weakness. And I think there's some good reasons why. So, I was just sharing that with our regional leaders this week, just encouraging them for their heart, for the churches they serve. And I want to encourage our pastors, you men do a remarkable job of this. You carry the people in your churches on your heart, and it's one of the reasons I can't believe I get to serve alongside each of the pastors in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, we appreciate that encouragement. Every pastor who's checking out the podcast right now is nodding their head, knowing this experience of carrying around the weight of care for the people that we love in our churches. But you have a couple thoughts specifically on implications; application for us coming out of that text.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I do. I mean, I think boasting in our weakness, being aware of our weakness, it has many implications in our lives. I just wanted to mention two. The first one is that that weakness frees us from the illusion of omnicompetency. Omnicompetency, because we are men who want to serve well, we want to lead our church as well, we want to pastor our church as well. And we want our people to have trust in us and confidence in us. We want them to know that we are competent, if you can say it that way. But we are not omnicompetent. And so God allows weakness in our life to free us from this illusion of being omnicompetent. And in so doing the weakness deepens our dependence upon God. As a result, Paul boasts in his weakness to identify with the weaknesses of those he serves. He can identify with them, he has compassion for them, but also it's Christ-like leadership to boast in your weakness. Because when he boast in his weakness, when pastors boast in our weakness, we identify with the weakness of Christ, which is most prominently seen at the cross, which he writes in the first letter to the Corinthians in the first chapter, that weakness is greater than man's strength.

And so it is a Christ-like leadership to be pastors who boast in our weakness and D.A. Carson has book entitled The Gospel and the Modern World, A Theological Vision for the Church. It's a book that contains all of his essays or many of his essays I should say all. And it's a book that was sort of just written in honor of him. And one of the essays that he wrote, it's about pastoral leadership in the church. And this is what he says. This is D.A. Carson. While most of us go through life afraid that people will think too little of us, one cannot help but notice that Paul goes through life afraid that people will think too much of him. And he specifically says that in 1 Corinthians 12 verse 6. So weakness, it frees us from this illusion that we have to be omnicompetent. We want to be like Paul. We want to go through life concerned that those we serve might think too much of us. And that's important because we don't want them to think too much of us. We want them to think too much of Christ, a lot of Christ. We want to be shepherds who point them to the one who is truly omnicompetent. So that's the first thing.

The second thing is that weakness frees us from relying upon our own strength. I think that's pretty obvious by the words he's using there. But as you know in the next chapter, he talks about the thorn in the flesh and that's a weakness for him. And Jesus says to him, my grace is sufficient for you, my power is made perfect in weakness. And Paul says, well, great. I'm going to boast in my weakness. I'm going to live content with weakness for when I am weak, then the power of God is strong in my life. So for any Christian I think, but certainly for us as pastors, weakness is the arena in which the power of God works best. It operates. And I think what that means actually is that a good leader isn't afraid to say, I have no idea what to do in this situation. I don't know what to do. Let's pray. Let's go to the one who does know. Let's go to the one who is all powerful. And we want to be men like that because again, it points people to Christ. And I think it's a reminder that at least for pastoral ministry, as pastors, we are called to do things daily, which man alone cannot do. We need the power of God.

In one of his lectures to my students, Charles Spurgeon, he writes, this miracles of grace must be the seals of our ministry; who can bestow them, but the spirit of God convert a soul without the spirit of God? Why you cannot even make a fly. That's a great sentence. Why you cannot even make a fly much less create a new heart and a right spirit, lead the children of God to a higher thing, he means by that holy life. Without the Holy Ghost, you are more likely to conduct them into carnal security. If you attempt their salvation or their elevation, by any method on your own, it won't work. Our ends can never be gained if we missed the cooperation of the Holy Spirit. And so we are men in pastoring our churches and in leading our churches who need the Holy Ghost. We need the cooperation of the Holy Spirit, that the spirit of the Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ fills us and gives us power to do things we can't do, that man can't do, and to do things, when we have no idea what to do in the situation. And so weakness is a very freeing thing. And I want us to be pastors who do boast in our weakness, believing and having faith that the power of God, will mark our ministry, may miracles of grace, be seals of the ministry of Sovereign Grace pastors.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. Last Sunday I began preaching through the book of 1 John. And John talks about how he wants his joy and the people he loves and serves and pastors and their joy together to be complete. And I told my church, I'm unlike John in almost every single way; gifting, theological depth. But I can resonate with John and with Paul's heart as a pastor, as Howard Marshall wrote, that "he is the heart of a pastor which cannot be completely happy, so long as some of those for whom he feels responsible are not experiencing the full blessing of the gospel." And we want our people to experience the full blessings of the gospel, exactly what you've been saying, we need the Holy Spirit's help. We are insufficient for that task, but with God's help, he makes us sufficient. So thank you, Mark. So grateful that you lead us not just as a denominational executive, but as a pastor who cares for us. And so thank you for your care and your encouragement. Thank you everyone for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, when this podcast drops into emails, you will be at a retreat with the leadership team, but also with the regional leaders. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, thank you for asking, Ben. The retreat that will start on Monday, February 5th, is a leadership team retreat. And for about three or four years now, we've been inviting regional leaders to the first half of the retreat. So the regional leaders are with us from Monday, February 5th through about noon on Wednesday the 7th, and then the leadership team is there until Friday and it's such an important strategic retreat. We've done this I think three or four years now. Initially we did it where we had the regional leaders join us in June and they gave us really good input. They loved the retreats. They said, could we do that the first retreat of the year? Because what it does is it helps us inform how we might want to lead through our regional assembly of elders. So that's why we do it in February as a leadership team and we invite our regional leaders in.

You might remember, if you listen to the podcast, that last year we also had our global leaders join us. We'll probably do that every few years, but this year it's just the nine US regional leaders that will join us. And it's such an important time because we believe these men are really the frontline of leadership in Sovereign Grace as they lead each of their regions and collectively help us lead Sovereign Grace together and forward in mission. And we just thank God for these regional leaders and want to not only invest into them, we want to encourage them and pray for them. And so we've just got time mapped out with them that we've thought through.

The first part of the retreat is just taking time to get updates from every regional leader about their region. And that's very important to us because we learn a lot as a leadership team about how our churches and our pastors are doing. But we also learn a lot from our regional leaders about how we can serve our churches better. So we just have some long conversation blocked out for those updates. And as a leadership team, we always look forward to that.

And then we've got three topics chosen that are in a short-teaching, long-q-and-a discussion format. And those three topics are a reflection of some of the things I'm carrying as the executive director, and the leadership team is carrying; just burdens that are on our heart for this year. Some of them actually I mentioned in the State of the Union. So we've got a session related to leading toward encouragement as I mentioned in the State of the Union, I think it's an area that we've gotten weaker in recently as a family of churches. So, just growing and encouragement. Jared is going to do a short teaching on encouragement and then we've got some questions we just want to kick around with the regional leaders.

The next one is a focus on godliness. We want to build Christ-like churches. I also mentioned that in my State of the Union. So, leading toward godliness and then a q and an after that, John and I will lead through. And really the purpose of that is to make sure that the cultural pressures we face that can locate responsibility for our actions outside of us, don't impinge upon the church. And that we continue to see the fact that indwelling sin still remains and we need the grace of God to transform us. That's in a nutshell a little bit what we want to talk about there. We also want to be aware of a therapeutic influence, you might call it the new therapeutic influence, which has more of an expressive individualism component in it than it did maybe back in the late nineties, for example. So we will kick that around.

And then we've got a session entitled Leading Toward the Future, and Jeff Purswell is going to talk about leading into pastoral equipping. And as I mentioned both in the main session and at the State of the Union, we've got guys, about half our pastors, in their fifties and sixties, and we just want to prepare for that transition that's coming up. So it's really about recruiting and sending men to the Pastor' College and just a little bit on how you do that. And then just a q and a discussion. So those are the sessions that we have planned with the guys along with updates, and we're really excited about our time with them. And so if you would pray for each of our regional leaders here in the States and for our time together, that would just be very, very helpful.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I just thank God for the gift of leadership that we've enjoyed historically in Sovereign Grace and that I know the leadership team and our regional leaders, you guys take your work seriously. It's wonderful to hear about the kinds of topics you'll be discussing, but also that you'll be building even deeper relationally by doing it in a retreat atmosphere. But they are leaving on Wednesday and the leadership team remains for a few more days for you guys to go over some things. What's going to happen when the leadership team is meeting together?

Mark Prater:

Some of the things that I have planned, I always have more of an agenda than we typically have time to get to, but some of the things I have planned that the leadership team has been thinking about and is coming prepared to discuss, there's a session entitled Sovereign Grace Vulnerabilities. So, just thinking through where our churches might be vulnerable theologically, vulnerable to the culture, and just trying to identify those so that we're keeping an eye on that and figuring out how do we lead in such a way that serves our pastors as they serve their churches in really protecting their flocks and really being aware of those vulnerabilities. And I've got that scheduled before we plan the pastors' conference because maybe there's something that emerges out of that conversation that might inform either a breakout session topic or main session topic that we want to talk about at the pastors' conference.

But we plan to plan not only the 2024 pastors’ conference, we hope to plan the 2025 conference, because in 2025, as I announced at the pastors' conference last year, that is going to be a pastors and leaders conference where we're encouraging our churches to bring all of your leaders, bring any members you want to bring; those that are not only small group leaders and deacons and ministry team leaders, but also those you might be developing for leadership. And we want to broaden that and we think the theme of that, we've got to sort of maybe even choose first before thinking about the theme of 2024, because we really want to serve our churches with the extra leaders that'll be there in 2025. So we'll plan the pastors' conference. We need wisdom for that, just not in terms of themes, but topics for main sessions and breakout sessions.

Jared is going to give a publishing update, which I'm really excited about. And then I've got Rich giving a Latin America update. And I just want to talk to the team, actually we have a session just about the broad application of our shaping virtues as something that Jared would like to discuss, which I think is really good. We have these shaping virtues. How do they continue to affect our churches? How do we continue to model them as pastors, that sort of a conversation. So that's basically the plan that we have.

As you mentioned, we take our work seriously, but we have a lot of fun in what we do. There will be a lot of laughter with the regional leaders. A lot of laughter with the leadership team guys. These men for me, not just the leadership team, but the regional leaders, they're men I just love working with and I can't wait to see them next week. And so if you're listening to this as it comes into your inbox Monday, thank you so much for praying.

Benjamin Kreps:

We will be praying for you guys as you sacrifice your time and with your church and your family as you serve us. Thank you so much to our excellent regional leaders and to our excellent leadership team. We thank God for you and thank you for the updates, Mark. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, clearly you are in a professional setting with professional equipment, which means this is not a normal podcast from your home. In fact, you are in Louisville.

Mark Prater:

I am. I'm sitting in the brand new music studio with my friend Steve Whitacre.

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey, Steve.

Steve Whitacre:

Hey guys. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be with you. I want you to know, first of all, I want to say thanks for what you do. I am always excited to get your email in my inbox. Always look forward to reading the transcript of what you guys have done, and really grateful to have the opportunity to hear almost every week about what's happening, how the Lord is at work in Sovereign Grace. So thank you. Thank you for producing this podcast.

Mark Prater:

Well, thank you for listening. You're one of the tens and tens of our fans.

Steve Whitacre:

So glad to be one.

Benjamin Kreps:

Small but mighty. Thanks for your encouragement, Steve. But Steve, you're here today as a guest on the podcast to talk about your role as president of Trinity College of Louisville. And as we talk about that over the next few minutes, why don't we start by helping to provide clarity for everyone checking out the podcast, about what Trinity College is.

Steve Whitacre:

Yeah, great. I'm really glad to speak to that. First, Trinity College, just broadly speaking, is a new venture. So Trinity College is a Christian liberal arts college that we started a year ago. So we're a year and a half into this. This is our second year. And if people are unfamiliar with Trinity College, two places to get started to get acquainted with what we're about first is our website, trinitycollegelou.com, or on YouTube. We recently published a brief promotional video that explains about the mission and purpose of Trinity College. So that's youtube.com/trinitycollegelou. And it's pinned right at the top. You can't miss it. So that's a brief bit about what we're about. I think it helps some people to understand the relationship of Trinity College to Sovereign Grace. That's a question that's come up sometimes. And I think it would probably help people to know that Trinity College was founded as an independent organization.

So we are separate from Sovereign Grace; we have our own board, our own budget and that sort of thing. And yet at the same time, Trinity College was founded with the vision of serving Sovereign Grace churches. We got down the road thinking, what if we could provide a higher education option that taught and led students with the theology and the values that Sovereign Grace holds dear? We think that would be a great way to do this. And that's how we got started on it. So Trinity College is founded with that in mind, and it's not going to be the right fit for every student. No college could be. Some students go to churches like Cornerstone Church of Knoxville with a thriving college campus ministry, Volunteers for Christ, right there at University of Tennessee and so it's great to stay there. Some students maybe have another Christian college close by that they are excited to attend and some students maybe aren't called to go to college at all. So we're excited to see how the Lord's working in any one of those circumstances.

But for students and families or churches who want this kind of education, a higher education with the theology and values of Sovereign Grace, we're excited to be building a Christian liberal arts college that infuses that classical liberal arts curriculum with the delight of the gospel of Jesus Christ in every area of study and life.

Mark Prater:

And by the way, for pastors listening, think about either members of your church, or if you're a parent listening and you have a student, one of the instructors at the college is Josh Blount. If you've attended the Pastors Conference in the last few years or listened to Josh's breakout sessions, he is an outstanding teacher. So, think about your child or a member of your church being trained by, at least partly by, Josh Blount. Steve also is an instructor, and obviously as a Sovereign Grace pastor and brings those values and theology. I think it's one of the ways to illustrate what you're talking about.

Steve Whitacre:

Yeah. Josh teaches our biblical anthropology class, and uniformly has been one of the most popular classes we've had. So students in that class, they study the Imago Dei. What does it mean to be made in the image of God? How does sin corrupt the image of God? How is the gospel restoring the image of God in Christians? And then how does that play out? And really key issues in the world today, like gender and sexuality, race and ethnicity, human flourishing. It's a fantastic class.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. I've heard you say this. I think it's important for anyone listening to hear this, Steve's shared this with me. Trinity College is a separate entity, it's separate organization, but he started it because he had a vision to provide a different higher level education than what some universities can offer today. And knowing some of the challenges on university campuses that are currently happening in our culture. So he's bringing that, but it's with the heart to serve Sovereign Graces churches. And this is what you've told me specifically, you not only want to educate students, prepare them for the future, but you want them to return home and be really good members of Sovereign Graces churches, or if they're not going to be in a Sovereign Grace church, then a good member of a church that they attend.

Steve Whitacre:

Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think there's maybe at least three ways that Trinity College does that. I think first that happens because one of our highest priorities at Trinity College is personal holiness. So we really want students who live godly lives, we want them to graduate and be more holy, more committed to godliness and have a better understanding of how the gospel transforms all of life than they did when they started college. So that's really important to us.

Secondly, we want them to be really well-equipped theologically and biblically for discernment. In a fallen world, our culture opposes the message of the gospel at every turn and in new and different ways every day. And so through the curriculum, we're trying to equip students with convictions about what scripture says on these topics, and then the courage to act on it, to live out a godly Christian life and to speak up when necessary in the public square.

And thirdly, and this is I think an important one too, is we want students to graduate debt-free. The rise of tuition costs in this country over the last few decades, it's out of control. It's unbelievable. And many students, I've read as many as 60 to 70% of college graduates will graduate with significant loads of student debt. And that means for those students, oftentimes the major milestones of mature adulthood get delayed. And so in Sovereign Grace, we've always put a really high value on marriage and on family. And so if students can graduate debt-free, then they're in a position to be used by God. They're in a position, they have the freedom to go ahead and get married, to start a family, maybe participate in a church plant, to go serve overseas for a period. All sorts of options open up to them. So that's a really important component as well.

Mark Prater:

And to help people listening to this podcast just understand how you accomplish that, talk a little bit about whatever you want to talk about, whether it's the Bridge year or the two-year or the four-year.

Steve Whitacre:

Right at the center of this is what we call the Bridge year. And so the Bridge year is a one-year certificate program that's designed to serve students with a wide variety of skills, insight, knowledge, and ability, so that they can, well, there's a few different possible outcomes for some students. Some students want to go on to a more technical degree, maybe math, science, medicine, something like that. They're going to need more technical training than we can offer, but if they're going to have to go out into a secular university, they are going to encounter all sorts of ungodly ideologies and anti-Christian worldviews. And so the idea with the Bridge year is, look, just take one year between high school and that education and get equipped for everything that's going to get thrown at you in that year. The Bridge year serves that way. And we've already had several graduates from last year's Bridge year tell us what a difference that it's making in their college experience now as they've gone on to secular universities. So I've been very encouraged to hear how that works.

Some students graduate high school without knowing what they're going to do, and maybe they want to take a year off. They plan on taking a gap year and they work, maybe they travel a bit, all kinds of different options. Those are great options, but we're thinking, Hey, look, if you're going to take a year anyway, why not come spend it with us? And one of the things that we do in the Bridge year is we try to help students understand the doctrine of vocation. What is the calling, or maybe even better, the callings that God has put on your life, and how do those change over time? We want to help them develop the wisdom and discernment to understand how God is leading them into the future. So for a student who's unsure what to do, it's a really great way to have some time to explore. We're going to give them some guidance and do some workshops together to start determining how the Lord leading them into their future. So the Bridge year works really great in those ways.

And for other students, if they come and they're a part of this and realize this is great; love studying history and literature, love studying theology and philosophy, and love learning language, and love how all this happens in the setting of a thriving local church, they want to stay longer. And so for them, the Bridge year becomes the freshman year of a two-year or four-year program. So we're only in our second year now, so we're building out a two-year associates and a four-year bachelors program. And so that'll take us a few years to get that curriculum all ironed out. But we're in the midst of that now. And so the Bridge year, it's the exact same curriculum. It just serves as the freshman year of those longer programs.

Now, I know some parents would ask at this point, oh, two-year associates, that's interesting. What could a student do with those credits from that two-year associates degree? Well, we are working right now with an organization that helps to facilitate the transfer credits moving from one institution to another. So we're trying to do everything we can to make it as easy as possible if students come to us for the one-year Bridge year program or a two-year associates or even a four-year bachelors, then to be able to make the most of that if they want to go on to further education later.

The other program that I want to mention, along with the Bridge year and two-year associates. The other program that we're really excited about is our dual enrollment plan. So dual enrollment is for high school seniors. So if you're currently a junior, or parents, if you have a junior right now, you might want to consider this for next year. For students who want to finish out their senior year pretty strong while also getting credit for college classes, dual enrollment is great and students can do this over Zoom. They can participate with this over Zoom while staying at home and benefiting from their own local church and the discipleship from parents and pastors and whoever else. And so the dual enrollment program, it is a la carte. Students don't have to take all five of the classes with the Bridge year, they can choose whichever they prefer, but it's a full-blown experience. So they're right in there taking the class, doing the assignments, and we have several dual enrollment students this year. So they'll graduate with their certificate from the Bridge year right when they graduate from high school. So it's fun to watch.

Mark Prater:

I remember when I think I first talked to Steve about even this idea of starting a college. My question was, you can do that? You can start a college?

Benjamin Kreps:

Apparently, you can.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I guess you can. And what Steve has accomplished in a year really is remarkable, I think.

Steve Whitacre:

Well, we've had a lot of help. So Mark, you're on the board. We have a really great board who is incredibly supportive. We've had some very generous donors in Sovereign Grace, and we're very grateful for folks who have contributed to make this happen. We have some fantastic professors, and most of all, we have students and parents who see the vision of what we're trying to do. They're willing to take a risk and give it a try, and I've been really encouraged to see how it's served them so far.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I mentioned this at the Pastors Conference; by God's Grace, by God's Grace, we want to be a multi-generational family of churches. And you see that happening. I mean, just the feedback from the Relay Conference is amazing. That generation excited about Christ. Those young folks, being in our churches, that's who we want to be. And I just thank you for your heart in starting this college for that kind of an education, and your heart to serve Sovereign Grace churches. And really what you're doing is you're serving future generations in our churches. So thank you for that.

Steve Whitacre:

Well, you're welcome. I'm grateful for the opportunity. I think about my experience growing up in Sovereign Grace all those years, all those conferences, 30 years I've been a part of Sovereign Grace, and hearing over decades now, hearing CJ saying, we are building something for a generation that we won't yet see. And I think Trinity College is just an extension of that vision, and so really grateful to be a part of it.

Mark Prater:

Amen.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. Thanks for giving us all that info about Trinity College. I mean, it's wonderful that we can trust the theology and practice of what's going on at the college for those of us who love and cherish our shared values and virtues. I mean, there's a Christian, so-called University up the road, fairly large, statement of faith looks kosher. It is completely corrupted with theological liberalism. And so to have an option where we know we can trust the doctrine and practice of the men who lead and teach in the college is a wonderful thing. So thank you for putting that together. Yeah, consider checking out the website, trinitycollegelou.com to learn more, and we're looking forward to someday saying it's year 20 and it's a thriving and growing Trinity College. Thanks for joining us.

Mark, anything else you want to add?

Mark Prater:

Just appreciate folks checking out the website and do look at the video. I've watched the video, by the way. It's outstanding.

Benjamin Kreps:

Check out the video; listen to Mark Prater. So thank you. Thanks for joining us and thanks to everybody for watching or listening to the podcast or reading. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director. We have a guest with us. You are down in Louisville, and we have the legendary Dean, Jeff Purswell, Dean of the Pastors College, joining us. Thanks for joining us, Jeff.

Jeff Purswell:

It's great to be here. I never thought I would make the lineup here. I've never seen the podcast. I read the podcast every week and to be included is quite the honor, so thank you.

Benjamin Kreps:

Your resume is complete. I attended the Pastors College in 2011 and 12, so I'm going 12 years since I graduated from the PC and we got guys on my team that went to Pastors College. It was one of the most wonderful years of my wife and I, our lives together. We often said we'd love to go back and do it again. It was such a joy. I'm coming to the pastoral ministry class next month, so I do dip back in, here and there.

But at the conference, Mark, you urged us to consider sending people to the Pastors College and talked about how it's an important part of raising up the next generation in pastoral ministry, a need that we have as the founding generation ages out of ministry. And so you had Jeff on because we want to talk about that.

Mark Prater:

Jeff is my good friend. We work a lot together, so thank you for honoring me to be on this podcast. Really what I'd like you to talk about is framed in this question, Why is the Pastors College vital to the future of Sovereign Grace, especially as it relates to theological training for our pastors, and not just theological training, but character development as well?

Jeff Purswell:

Wow, great question. Vital, that's an imposing word. I certainly wouldn't say, and I'm sure none of us would say, that churches cannot raise up pastors, that churches cannot grow and flourish and reproduce themselves, that Sovereign Grace cannot endure without the Pastors College. I would say though, that given who we are as a family of churches, given what the Lord has worked in us, the doctrine that we confess together, our connected polity, our shared values, our shaping virtues, those things that we hold to and treasure and cherish, I think for those to be nurtured and preserved and transferred between generations, I do think the Pastors College plays a vital role.

There's a number of reasons for that, but perhaps the primary one I would say is that the Pastors College exists not just to train men for pastoral ministry, but to train them for pastoral ministry in Sovereign Grace churches. In other words, it's pastoral training calibrated to our partnership. It's designed to strengthen our partnership. It's designed to impart values and instill virtues by the grace of God that are vital to our partnership. So we're not just a generic, freestanding academic institution determining our own values and our own standards in a vacuum driven by our preferences or the preferences of random instructors or much less driven by the marketplace. We exist to serve churches. We are accountable to the churches that we serve. And so we seek by God's grace to design and hopefully to continually strengthen a program that serves the interests of our churches, our doctrinal commitments, our philosophical commitments, our missional commitments, even our politic convictions.

And I'll just tell you from my perspective, as you observe the broader evangelical world, as you look at where certain institutions have moved, if you look at the pressures that are upon, especially theological training institutions, if you look at how theological definition has weakened, how denominational fragmentation has occurred, and even more broadly within the evangelical world, the fragmentation that we've all observed in recent years, I do think the Pastors College is helping and will help in the future to preserve and to strengthen and protect us in our doctrine, in our mission, in our relationships. And I trust, beyond all our gospel commitments and ultimately our devotion to Christ and His glory in our lives and in the church.

Mark Prater:

Amen. So well said. I think it's well said for a number of reasons, but one is just equipping men for ministry, specifically for Sovereign Grace churches. Sort of a follow-up question to that would be, what can the Pastors College accomplish that a local church can't?

Jeff Purswell:

Yes, that's a great question, especially for pastors who might be listening. Again, I want to say I think local churches do have a responsibility to raise up pastors, elders; 2 Timothy 2 places that imperative upon the shoulders of every pastor. So it's not that a local church, and none of us would want to say that a local church cannot raise up pastors, obviously they can and clearly not every man aspiring to pastoral ministry in Sovereign Grace is able to come to the Pastors College. Although I do want to say over 25 years of experience, I have seen the Lord provide in a remarkable way. So I would politely challenge any guy who just automatically assumes they can't make it. Well, perhaps you can. Not every church is necessarily in a position to send a man and his family to the Pastors College, but if they can, and I would strongly encourage them to consider this, we're just able to accomplish things in the Pastors College that is difficult, if not impossible, for a local church to do.

And that is not because we have created something great in the Pastors College or we have this wonderful expertise in the Pastors College. It's because the churches of Sovereign Grace have partnered together to create the Pastors College, and they are devoted to resourcing the Pastors College precisely to produce a quality of training and an intensity of training that an individual church would love to do, but can't. So it's not as if a church can't do it and we can, it's that our churches have partnered together now for a quarter century to create the Pastors College to create what they wish they could do, but given their limited resources and time and manpower, they're just unable to do so.

The credit for this goes to our churches. And what we seek to do is just build upon what our churches are already doing in the lives of the men that they are raising up now. So examples of that, we could enumerate many things. Obviously there are resources provided by our churches that are available in the Pastors College, the pooled experience or the pooled expertise in the Pastors College through our various instructors. And this is another thing that I think people often are unaware of. The exposure to Sovereign Grace pastors to an array of Sovereign Grace pastors and Sovereign Grace leaders that a pastors college student receives, I mean, they benefit. So in the process, they benefit not only from their own local church, but from many local churches through interacting with the leaders of many local churches, they get to know and interact with Sovereign Grace leaders.

Most of the members of the leadership team typically come through. Many of them teach. They interact with members of the executive committee when they're in town. So they're getting to know the leaders of our family of churches. It's a wonderful exposure. I think of an example, if you think of certain corporations, they'll have an executive training program, a management training program. And so certain people in that corporation, they'll meet the CEO, they'll meet the board of directors and so forth, and they're just meeting people who are leading them, and they're meeting people who are providing guidance for that organization that may, it's a weak comparison, but it's kind of like that; a person, a student who graduates from the Pastors College, they have gotten to know our family of churches in a very personal way. And I think there's real benefit from that.

They also benefit from the staff, obviously, of the Pastors College and of Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. And so in addition to the church that sends them, they benefit from another local church, a local church that has a broad range of experience on his pastoral team. So they're learning from CJ Mahaney and his years of experience and his years of faithful example from the team he's assembled there. They learn throughout the year worship from Bob Kauflin and so forth.

And then of course, they are building deeply relationally with a group of men and families from throughout Sovereign Grace. As I always say, the secret sauce of the Pastors College, our secret weapon, it's the men who come. It's the men that our churches send. And I've seen it year after year, what happens among the students and their families. I tell the guys at the beginning of the year, look around; the greatest means of grace to you this year through the spirit's work is going to be the men sitting around you. They become lifelong friends, they become gospel coworkers.

All that to say, when a man graduates from the Pastors College, he has had an intensive, multidimensional exposure, not just to doctrine, not just to scripture, but also to Sovereign Grace as a family of churches.

And then the other part of that, and this may be obvious, but I do want to mention it, there's simply the benefit or the privilege of an intensive undistracted focus on learning, on a biblical and theological education, on a pastoral education, on intensive discipleship that most of them will probably never have that opportunity again. And when a man is in the marketplace serving as a bi-vocational pastor and so forth, and I'm so grateful for our bi-vocational pastors and have tremendous respect for them, because they are adding on top of their labors, providing for their family. They're serving the local church. But when a man has the opportunity, there is a particular benefit to that intensive, concentrated focus that just leverages all that they're learning, I think.

So I think those would be a few of the things that a local church would have difficulty doing, but again, our local churches have decided they want to produce this. So it's not as if we're doing something that are separate from our local churches. We're doing something that our local churches support and have helped to create.

Mark Prater:

Well said. Well said. Obviously there are guys that come to Sovereign Grace Churches with a seminary degree or there may be men in our churches that are thinking about pastoral ministry and they're thinking about seminary, which could be an option. So I'd just like to answer this question, What does the Pastors College do that a seminary can't?

Jeff Purswell:

Yeah, that's a great question. I interact a lot with people over that issue. Obviously, much to be gained in a seminary setting. We are grateful for seminaries. I'm personally grateful for seminaries. We encourage guys to avail themselves, if they have the opportunity, of seminaries and their resources. Like you said, more many guys come to the Pastors College after seminaries. A number of our students will go on to take seminary courses after graduating from the Pastors College. So we just fully encourage that and are grateful for that, especially where seminary education is going, which is going online. It's actually one of the unfortunate things that's happening among seminaries, and this is happening every day. Their ongoing viability for a residential program is becoming very difficult. And so the trend is online, and while that is a qualitatively different experience, I think in pastoral training, nonetheless, it does make available biblical and theological information and doctrinal teaching that I think is a blessing.

But when we think about the Pastors College, the Pastors College is not merely a seminary alternative in other words, a sort of quantitatively lesser seminary experience. The Pastors College is a qualitatively different experience from a seminary in many ways. I'm not saying it's superior, that we're superior to seminaries. I'm just saying we're different. It's a different thing. So the choice is not simply a stark "seminary or the Pastors College". I think you have to look deeper than that and say, okay, what is the Pastors College? What is the college experience comprised of? This touches on what we said a moment ago about the Pastors College training being calibrated to our partnership. A few specifics there. First of all, it's not just theological information that's downloaded online. It is a confessional education. We have a charge from our churches that Sovereign Grace Churches, theological biblical convictions, undergird and inform all of our instruction. And so we look at our statement of faith, which all of our pastors affirm as representing the body of teaching that they're committed to.

Our statement of faith is like a solemn pact between the Pastors College and our churches. So our instruction doesn't waver according to an instructor's idiosyncratic preferences or current fashions or sort of evangelical trends. No, it's tethered to the biblical and theological character of our partnership, and that's just vital. I'd include in that our gospel centrality; that's not a slogan, on a flag, we wave. We're just not in the gospel centered club. No, the gospel embodies certain realities and the pastor's call, it seeks to honor the realities embodied in the gospel. And so we endeavor self-consciously to train men to build their lives and their families and their churches upon the gospel of Jesus Christ and it's glorious doctrinal realities as well as it's existential, it's life implications.

I think another distinction is our connection to the local church. Of the many ways I would describe the Pastors College program, one is the theological training that is informed by our ecclesiology. And so the entire structure, the entire program is just that. It is informed by our ecclesiology because our students are being trained to serve in local churches. We don't want their education isolated from the very context for which they're being trained to serve. And that doesn't mean that it's education just within the walls of a church, but no, training that is informed by, illustrated by, reinforced by, contributed to, from a shared church context. I think of the illustration of medical students that are trained in connection with a teaching hospital. They're in the classroom a lot, but then they get connected to a teaching hospital. Our students, there's a comparison there. Our students, they benefit from that powerful combination of instructional expertise and contextual application. So every day we are making, in every course, we are making connections intentionally between the content of lectures and the life and ministry of the host church that the men are coming from, where they and their families are worshiping and so forth.

And then let me step back and say our ecclesiology informs the entire Pastors College experience from the admissions process. So our students aren't self-selected men who have money and can fill out an application and just pursue a theological education. No, they are sent from local churches with their character and their gifting being affirmed, their internal desire for ministry receiving some degree of external confirmation from their local church. When they graduate, their deployment into local churches is going to be informed by their Pastors College experience. So again, it's not just you graduate, you send out resumes and try to get a job in a church, but those connections that we have in our partnership is informing the deployment of them.

And then another way I sometimes describe the Pastors College, is we're training men to do theological ministry. In other words, we want every aspect of ministry, every methodology of ministry to be informed and shaped by theological convictions. Methodology is not incidental, but we want all methodology to be informed and shaped by scripture and by theological education.

Another aspect that I'd have to throw in there, I mentioned this earlier, but our training is relationally nourished. One of the unique aspects of the Pastors College as opposed to a seminary setting is that students aren't just taking the same curriculum but on their own timetable passing one another in the halls, but they are experiencing everything together. They're experiencing the classroom setting together. They're experiencing fellowship groups together. They're experiencing couples groups together. So every aspect of the program; pastoral, theological, personal, is leveraged by those relationships making each component of the Pastors College experience, I think more fruitful.

And that gets to one other dimension, and seminaries know this and they say this, not that they don't want to nurture the spiritual lives, but you'll typically hear when you enter a seminary, we are not your church now, the Pastors College is not their church either, but because it is informed by our ecclesiology, we do have a distinct life and doctrine focus. If I can just echo 1 Timothy 4:16, that is a verse that the students here exposited on day one of orientation, and it is a verse that will appear on their certificate of graduation when they graduate. Every aspect of the Pastors College is designed to cultivate one or both of those priorities. Watch your life and watch your doctrine. Both are imperative. Neither is incidental and neither is meant to be pursued in isolation from the other.

So, I think all of those things together make the Pastors College a qualitatively different experience from a seminar. Again, grateful for seminaries, really encourage guys to supplement their education with seminary education. But I do think by the grace of God, because of who we are and who God has made us as a family of churches, there's things that happen there that a seminary is just not designed to accomplish or equipped to accomplish.

Mark Prater:

So well said.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. Excellent. Well, I know firsthand having had exactly the kind of experience you described when I attended way back when, I remember talking to a guy in my class who had an advanced seminary degree, and he was just talking about what a blessing the Pastors College year was and how different it was than his academic experience up to that point. One of my favorite things and I think is most helpful is that, yeah, it's academic in nature. There's strenuous hard work to be done and papers to be written and tests, but everything is oriented towards helping the student understand how to apply this as a pastor. And so that was extremely helpful. I'm confident I would not be anything like the pastor I am today without my PC experience.

And so thank you, Jeff. 'Looking forward to taking a class next month. Typically I go about once a year and find a good class and attend. And so thank you for the many years you have blessed our family of churches by leading the Pastors College.

We are evaluating a couple of guys potentially for PC, so we're excited about that. We got Kevin back from PC a couple of years ago, my executive pastor, and it's so true, I remember the first time I went to a Pastors Conference in 2010. I didn't know anybody, and my wife and I sort of wandered around a little awkward. And 2011, by the time we got to that Pastors Conference, we were in the PC and we had already begun to build bonds of friendship that just continued to this day. And so it really does provide this relational foundation. We care about relational partnership, and so PC serves our churches so well, when guys go through there and come back home to be pastors.

So thanks, Jeff. Thank you all for reading or watching. We'll see you here, Lord willing, next week. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, those who are listening, checking out the podcast probably are having the experience of their church focusing on prayer. It's the beginning of a new year. Many of our churches do have a focus on prayer. We certainly do. In fact, we're spending the whole month of January focused on prayer. You guys at Covenant Fellowship are having a week of prayer including fasting, I believe. And so the beginning of the year seems to be a natural time to focus specifically on our prayer lives in the new year and throughout the coming year. You certainly have been thinking about the topic of prayer. Share your thoughts with us, please.

Mark Prater:

Yes, thanks Ben, and thanks for praying. I was in Knoxville last week and they're devoting a week of prayer next week, actually the week that this podcast ends up in your inbox. So just another example of churches in Sovereign Grace that do that at the beginning of the year, which is a good thing. And I'm so glad that we are a praying group of churches and want to continue to encourage us that way. Partly just because of what I've been talking about in previous podcast episodes where I've mentioned John 15:5 where Jesus says, "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you abide in me and I in you, he it is that bears much fruit". And then he says this, "for apart from me, you can do nothing". And prayer is an expression of that; apart from him, we can do nothing. In fact, the text even says that, because two verses later in verse seven, Jesus says this, he says, "if you abide in me and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you". So one of the ways that we abide in Christ and one of the ways we express our dependence upon Christ is we ask. And so it's something I've been thinking about because I want us to be a family of churches that prays together and prays for one another.

So, these are things that folks already know, but are good reminders: when we pray, we want to pray in line with what Jesus taught us and how we approach God and our mindset towards God. Dale Ralph Davis says in his commentary on 2nd Kings, he says, "speaking truth about God to God may stir assurance in God". And it's a great quote because it really captures how Jesus teaches us to start to pray; "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name". So we're speaking truth about God, our father is in heaven. And from there he rules and he reigns and he moves forward His good sovereign plan for our lives as individual Christians, as local churches, and as a family of churches. And we are to go to God with our needs. I'm going to speak about that. Jesus teaches that in the Lord's prayer. But our motivation always should be for the glory of God, which is why we say hallowed be your name. May you answer all these prayers for your glory. And so as we pray, may our main motivation as a family of churches be the glory of God.

I came across this story about Martin Luther recently that really does capture that he seemed to understand that when he prayed for requests, he wanted God to answer them for his glory. So in 1540, Martin Luther's friend Friedrich Myconius became terribly ill and his friends thought he would shortly die. And one night with his trembling hand, he wrote a farewell note to Luther, whom he deeply loved. Upon receipt, Luther shot back his reply. He wrote back his reply, "I command thee in the name of God to live because I still have need of thee in the work of reforming the church. The Lord will not let me hear while I live that you are dead but will permit thee to survive me. For this I'm praying, this is my will and may my will be done because I seek only, seek only, to glorify the name of God." That's what he wrote back. And so Friedrich had already lost his faculty of speech when Luther's letter came, but he survived and he lived and he recovered and he actually outlived Luther by two months. So God answered Luther's prayer. Now, I'm not saying that God answers all prayers like that. The point of that story is that his motivation is that God would answer that prayer for the glory of God. And so whatever we pray individually, whatever we pray as a local church for our church, whatever we pray together as a family of churches, may it always be motivated by the glory of God.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. It is quite a promise that Jesus makes, that whatever you ask you will have it. And clearly the Apostle John whose gospel you're quoting from, applied that to his life. We read in 1 John where he talks about "we have confidence that if we pray anything according to the will of God, we will have it". And so one of the things we're doing in our sermon series is we're preaching through four of Paul's prayers because one way to be confident you're praying according to the will of God is to pray the words of scripture back to God, and the promises of God as well. So thoughts on us personally emulating Martin Luther's faith on bringing our requests and our needs to God. How exactly does that glorify God?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think certainly it's what Jesus teaches in the Lord's prayer; we're to ask for daily bread, we're to ask for forgiveness. We're to ask that he would keep us from temptation, deliver us from temptation. Those are all needs that we have. And I think it glorifies God because when God answers those prayers, the only explanation is that the power of God has been at work within us. That's what it says in Ephesians 3:20, which is one of Paul's prayers. He's praying for the Ephesians that they may receive power, be strengthened by God's power by asking God to draw from the riches of his glory there in Ephesians 3 and give them power to live for him and to follow him and to give him glory. And when we do that, as the text says in verse 20, then the glory of God is really revealed because it reveals the power of God at work within us.

So we are not to be shy about bringing our requests to God. And so the question really is, where in your life or where in your church's life (I think about this when I write the prayer request for Sovereign Grace), where in our family of churches do we need God's power? And however you answer that question, wherever that need is for God's power, that's where God is calling you to pray. Where do you have a need? It might be growth in Christ, it might be a financial need. It might be a desire to see one of your adult children who's wandered away from the faith to come back to Christ, whatever that need might be. That's where God is calling us to pray. And I think that's a part of prayer. There's a man by the name of Ole Hallesby who wrote a book on prayer and he says this, he says, "helplessness becomes prayer the moment you go to Jesus and speak candidly and confidently with him about your needs". And that's what Jesus wants us to do, to come to him with our need to speak candidly and yet confidently that as he hears those needs, he's more than able to answer them.

So let us again be a family of churches that prays for the glory of God as we pray about our needs, asking him to meet those needs and to give us power where we need it all for his glory.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. I was preaching from Colossians 1 last week and I was struck by one of Paul's burdens in prayer in chapter 1:11 where he prays that the Colossians be strengthened with all power according to his glorious might. And you think, okay, what remarkable thing that will be the fruit and effect of all power of God at work in our lives and it's endurance and patience with joy. And so just even in the ordinary everyday experiences of our lives, we need that power simply to endure patiently and joyfully through the pressures of this world. So in ways big and small, expansively across the whole of our lives. We certainly need to pray and we want to be a family of churches that does pray in Sovereign Grace. Mark, you help us do that when you send out your quarterly prayer requests, prayer updates for prayer, to help us understand what's going on, which I think will drop the day after everyone receives this podcast in their email next week because we record a few days of course before it drops. Talk to us about your heart when it comes to us, as a denomination, a family of churches, and prayer.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, thank you. My heart would be that we could all get together regardless of where we're at in the world. I don't know where we would gather, but that we could all get together, all the members of our family of churches and just cry out to God together. Wouldn't that be sweet? That's what I really want. But that's not possible, obviously, practically, until that day when we go and see Jesus or when he returns, then it'll be possible. But until that day, I think the best we can do is just to purpose to pray together, and for one another, as a family of churches. And that's why for several years now, I've been writing and sending out quarterly prayer requests for our family of churches. I send them to the pastors asking them to consider praying for Sovereign Grace and praying about those needs in a Sunday meeting or maybe in a corporate prayer meeting you have at your church.

We also post those on the Sovereign Grace website on our blog every quarter. And so you can look for those. And if you want to pray for our family of churches, please do that. I'm writing the first quarter prayer requests this week. They'll be sent out next week and they'll be on the blog next week as well. The other thing that's just a recent initiative by one of our pastors, Joel Shorey, who's the lead pastor of Redeemer Fellowship in Newark, Delaware, he's started at quarterly prayer Zoom meeting that any Sovereign Grace pastor can join. In fact, I think you told me he's got one scheduled for next week, the week of this podcast. So if somebody's interested, if you're a Sovereign Grace pastor and you're interested in joining that prayer meeting, contact Joel Shorey. He's in Newark, Delaware, and you can find his email in the directory. So there's just a couple of ways that we do pray together. And if you pray for our family of churches, thank you. Thank you for praying. And may God answer all those prayers for his glory.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Yes, I'm looking forward to that; my first time on that Zoom call, praying for Sovereign Grace. So grateful for Joel's leadership in that. Joel is a compelling model of a praying man, that I appreciate. So if guys want to join that, I'm sure Joel would love to have you if you email him.

In Philippians, which is probably one of the healthiest experiences Paul is having with the church in the New Testament, we see there clearly that partnership is nurtured by prayer, is nurtured in prayer. And so it is our joy, privilege, to pray for one another in Sovereign Grace and throughout Sovereign Grace and to strengthen and nurture that partnership that we enjoy in Sovereign Grace. So Mark, thank you for your encouragement. Thank you all for watching, reading or listening, and we'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.