VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, you have some encouraging updates for us about some things happening globally, including the adoption of a new full partner church in Sovereign Grace. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

I do. I just want the guys to be aware, we're adding churches to our website. Churches are being added to Sovereign Grace in different parts of the world, and we do have a new Emerging Nations partner church that's a full partner church in Namibia, which is in southern Africa. Josh Kruger Jr. Is planting Sovereign Grace Church in Windhoek, Namibia. Windhoek is the capital city of Namibia. Josh is a native South African and his wife and family moved there several years ago to be missionaries, and as they did that work, he just had this growing desire to plant a Sovereign Grace Church in Windhoek. And so what he did is he came back to the States for a little over a year, year and a half, something like that. He got additional theological training, additional pastoral training, and he did that through taking some pastors college classes as well as getting training at our church in Richmond, Virginia, Kingsway Community Church, where his dad, Josh Kruger Sr. is a bivocational elder. That church is led by Matthew Williams.

And so that church has invested into him and has a lot invested into this church plant. It's another wonderful expression of partnership. He also then went through the ordination process and was formerly ordained as a Sovereign Grace elder and then returned late January, early February of this year to plant Sovereign Grace Church in Windhoek Namibia which we are very excited about. He is just in the early stages of that church plant. So please pray for Josh, if you would, that God would provide for them and draw people to the church. And if anyone is interested in joining that church plant, which is quite a distance to go to Namibia, please contact Josh. Or if you can't get ahold of him, contact Matthew Williams at Kingsway Community Church in Richmond, Virginia. And it wouldn't just be having a heart for maybe that region of Africa, what would really be helpful is if you spoke an additional language than English. Now English is spoken there, but if you spoke for example Afrikaans, that is a common language also spoken there, so just be praying for that.

We're very excited to add that church as a full partner church in Sovereign Grace which now gives us two churches in the southern region of Africa, one in Zambia obviously, and one now in Namibia.

We also added this week a new candidate church in India. That church is Church of Mount Zion, the city. I'm going to warn you, I'm going to mispronounce just in keeping with my reputation. Yeah, it's on brand. The city and state Bhubaneswar is the city and Odisha is the state. Bhubaneswar is the capital city, the largest city in the state of Odisha. That is in northwest India. And that's a church that we've been relating to for quite a long time through the relationship of Erik Rangel. And Erik is the Senior Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Yuma, Arizona, and also through Todd Peterson, who's an elder in El Paso at Ricky Alcantar's Church. Those two men have been traveling there. I think Erik has known the guys there longer, but they've been traveling together for the last few years. The elders of this church got to a place where they really wanted to now pursue adoption in Sovereign Grace, want to pursue partnership. So they are now in the adoption process and the next step for them is for one of those elders or maybe both of them to go through our ordination process and hopefully then be ordained at some point.

Another update is the Philippines, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this because Dave Taylor just sent out today his new monthly missions update for Sovereign Grace. He has a wonderful article about the Philippines, but just to highlight the fact that Bob Kauflin, Devon Kauflin and David Zimmer traveled there on behalf of Sovereign Grace Music and served alongside of Dave Taylor, Riley Spring and then our national leader there, Jeffrey Jo.

And it was just a wonderful time. Just to highlight three events. They had a sort of a mini pastor's conference for 200 people; pastors, their wives, leaders, all of those are from churches that are either pursuing adoption in Sovereign Grace or interested in pursuing adoption in Sovereign Grace. Then Bob and Devon and David did a training seminar for a thousand musicians and vocalists. Just to invest into worship teams there and that was wonderful. And then they had an evening where it was gathering around the gospel, a night of singing, of prayer and of scripture reading that was in Manila. 3,800 people attended that event. So it's wonderful to see the influence of Sovereign Grace Music and how that strengthens our partnership with Sovereign Grace churches. So please read Dave's article. There's a lot more to tell about.

And then next week, Joselo Mercado is traveling to Santa Domingo, Dominican Republic where he will, I think it's April 11th through the 14th or something like that where he will lead a marriage retreat as well as a leader's retreat for Odessa church, a church that he is related to for about 20 years now. So just another way to invest into what is happening in the Caribbean, really in Latin America, which is very exciting.

And then one other thing I really want our pastors to make sure they read in Dave's update is Ed O'Mara's update for the Sovereign Grace Europe Pastor's retreat that happened in the middle of March gathering pastors and leaders from different parts of Europe again to build relationally. There were new men that weren't there last year who are interested in Sovereign Grace, which was encouraging, and that retreat just went very, very well. So read that update.

But I wanted to mention, Ben, you were there in Europe just after that retreat, actually in Warsaw, Poland. Kyle Huber who was at the Europe Pastor's Retreat, stayed in Europe, and you guys went to Warsaw and spent just a few days to invest into our brothers from Belarus. And I thought it would just be good for our pastors to hear what you walked away from with that time. What affected you, what did you learn?

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, thanks for asking. Real quick, if anybody that's checking out the podcast is on Instagram, give Sovereign Grace Churches a follow because there's all kinds of pictures to Illustrate the stories that you're sharing with us. It was so fun to see thousands gathered in the Philippines and singing together. And so that's a wonderful way to get updated.

So I went to Poland. I was invited by Kyle Huber to interact with some brothers there, especially one key couple from Belarus. Kyle for background, Kyle's been going to Belarus for 20 years and has been teaching in a school there. And so we were primarily relating to two of his former students who are marrie but that have fled Belarus. The story is long and it's sad, but Belarus, if you're not aware, is a very difficult country to live in and there's little freedom. And so they had to flee as a young couple. And so we had the honor of interacting with them, spending time with them, building relationally with them, which as you well know, that's what we do in Sovereign Grace. And then the one evening I was able to gather with a small group of young adults that are also from Belarus, also refugees from Belarus for a time of fellowship, studying God's word, getting to know each other. And so what a humbling thing, what an honor to gather with about a dozen, there's about 20 in this group, that could potentially be a church plant core group.

Mark Prater:

Wonderful.

Benjamin Kreps:

And to gather with them was an honor, was a joy. Thankfully there were some interpreters there because I don't speak Russian and there was a lot of Russian going on. So I left Poland deeply encouraged and full of faith about what God is doing in Warsaw and the potential of a church plant there because Warsaw, we learned while we were in Warsaw, we learned the country of Poland by many estimates, has only about 60,000 Christians, evangelical Christians in it. So it would be considered an unreached people group, .3%, of the population are professing evangelicals.

So there is fruitful ministry. The fields are white. And so it was a joy to start to get to know and grow friendship and relationship with the brothers in Poland that are there from Belarus. So it was a real privilege.

Mark Prater:

Thanks for doing that. You're right, Ben. The fields are ripe for harvest. And I want to emphasize that Sovereign Grace is only playing a small part. There's other denominations and organizations who are seeking to do what we're trying to do, which is to fulfill the great commission that our savior has given us. And we want to do all that. We want to play our small part and come alongside those other denominations and organizations to reach the lost with the gospel because a day is coming when he will return, and we want to reach as many people as we can with the good news of Jesus Christ, so that on that day we are all prepared for the judgment that will come and the gospel gives the good news that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus as Paul writes so well in Romans 8:1.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. And it is fascinating. It's joyful to travel, to be with people even though I didn't speak Russian, but as the one guy Philip was speaking through his interpreter who was his wife actually, and he was sharing about the affect of the gospel on his life, having been heartbroken, having to flee their home country, their home, and how God has ministered to him with the gospel. I just sat there and I was like, I don't know words you're saying except for your wife interpreting, but I know you. I know what's going on. And just the heartbeat that we share because of the gospel globally, that transcends culture, language. It's such a sweet thing to experience and so glad that we get to, many of us pastors, in some ways. If you have a chance and if asked, I would encourage the guys to consider participating in this kind of work. So thank you, Mark for the updates. Thank you for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, we were talking before we started recording. It is Holy Week. Of course this will drop into emails after Easter. But we are right in the heart of thinking about all that pertains to holy week and the week that Jesus went to the cross and rose from the dead. And you were describing what you're called a convergence of some things happening in your life that you wanted to talk to us about.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, there has been just a convergence of and a stirring of affections on my heart of two things. The first is the one you just mentioned. This is Holy Week. We are recording this podcast on Maundy Thursday. So just reflecting upon what this day represents as the stories of the Bible tell them; Jesus obviously washing his disciples feet in John 13, the sharing of the Passover meal the night before his death, and in doing so announcing that the new covenant was about to be established through his death. And then obviously tomorrow, good Friday, I think one of the most important days in the Christian calendar as we reflect upon the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ for us who have trusted Christ, for all of our sins on the cross where he bore and received fully the wrath of God. He drank the cup empty of God's wrath on our behalf and it's just a good truth to continue to reflect upon.

And then obviously Resurrection Sunday, that's coming Sunday as we celebrate his resurrection. Three days later, he rises from the dead as our victorious savior and king victorious over sin and over Satan and over death and now rules and reigns. And we await his glorious return. Yes, we do. Those are wonderful truths that we need to not only rehearse in our mind, may they affect us and deepen our understanding of the gospel and our gratitude to Christ for what he has done for us in bringing salvation. So that's one thing.

The thing that's converging with that I mentioned in a podcast a couple episodes ago, that during my knee injury and surgery and now I'm in physical therapy, I've been capturing a number of lessons that I am writing down that I believe the Lord's teaching me, but I've just started to write resolutions. It's a little different way to think about it. And so I'm writing resolutions for my life and ministry in my later years. So I'm reflecting a bit on what happens now with my life and with my ministry from here until I go to glory.

And so there are resolutions I've begun to write. I may talk more about these. I only want to share one today. The first one is related to obviously giving God glory in all of my life. But here's the next one, and this is how I wrote it and it's appropriate to write this during holy week. Here's the resolution: I resolve to keep the gospel central in my life; affections, marriage, home and ministry, for it is the grand storyline of the Bible, the pinnacle of God's redemptive acts, the power of God and the essential message for faith, life, ministry, and witness.

And so anybody listening to that language would hear some of that language is found in our shared value of gospel-centered preaching, gospel-centered doctrine. And as I read that, I just thought I can't improve on that. So I took some of that language and shifted it just a bit. But I want to give credit to obviously, I think Jeff Purswell wrote that for our description of that particular value, it's an important value, what I just said, that we want to keep the gospel central in life and affections and marriage and home and life and ministry. I think everyone listening to this podcast is aware of its knowledge that you have, certainly Sovereign Grace pastors, and really all pastors are trying to build gospel centered churches. And whether you're part of a Sovereign Grace church or not as a member, you want to keep the gospel central. And I'm praying that that knowledge deepens for me in my later years of life and ministry that it never becomes familiar and may it never become familiar with any of us.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. Mark, appreciate your example. The resolution sounds very Edwardian, Jonathan Edwards and his resolutions that are wonderful as well. In that resolution, you talk about how you want to make sure the gospel is central in your affections. And certainly this is a great week for us to deepen our affections for Christ during Holy Week. But talk to us about why you included that in your resolution.

Mark Prater:

Well, I include it in the resolution because I want that. I desire that personally. But it's also what you see in scripture. There is an effect that the gospel has where the knowledge of the gospel, the full story of the gospel, affects you. It stirs and deepens your affections. And I think Paul is a great example. So a couple of passages where you see that: Romans chapter 1 where he writes in verse 14, I am under obligation. Obligation. He feels this obligation, this compulsion both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. And what is the obligation that he feels? Verse 15 says, so I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome for I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, the Jew first and also to the Greek. And so this obligation is something that Paul feels, it's something that has stirred his affection, his zeal for preaching. The gospel has only grown because of the truth of the gospel. And we want, as Jeff Purswell preached a couple of years ago at our pastor's conference, we want to be pastors and we want to be members of churches who have zeal in our life and ministry. And the gospel stirs that kind of zeal.

Just one other example from Paul's life that you find in 1 Corinthians 9, it's just a wonderful example in verse 16; for if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. So he's saying, look, if there's any boasting, it's the gospel. Then he says this, for necessity is laid upon me. He feels this necessity laid upon him. And then he says, woe to me if I do not preach the gospel again. He's feeling this necessity, this compulsion, this urgency, this eagerness to preach the gospel. And he says, if I don't do that, woe to me. That is gospel truth that has a stirred his affections and his zeal. So you see that in scripture. We want to be like that. We need to pray and ask God that the truth of the gospel would never be familiar to us, but that it would bring an obligation, necessity, that we would feel, to share the gospel, to preach the gospel, to pastor people with the gospel to lead our churches into gospel centered lives. And may we do that all for the glory of Christ. And so I'm praying that as I grow older, that that would happen in my life and I wanted to share that during this Holy Week.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent encouragement for us, Mark. It's been well said that when you read the letters of Paul, he just never got over his conversion. He never got beyond daily wonder for the gospel, deepening wonder, it appears, in the gospel. And so it is part of our jobs, our calling as pastors is to continually be working to get the gospel that we know intellectually, to get it down into our hearts so that we do have those kind of passionate affections for Christ and a passion to preach Christ to our people, knowing that the people we love and serve need the gospel more than anything else. So love your example, appreciate your encouragement. I hope everybody is going to have a wonderful Easter. We're anticipating a great weekend coming up, starting tomorrow with our Good Friday service. So thank you, Mark. Thank you for checking out the podcast and we'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches to our executive director. Mark, you're standing.

Mark Prater:

I am standing. Progress. Yeah, I went to physical therapy yesterday and bent it 30 degrees. It was this liberating experience. So I'm doing exercises or I have to take the brace off a couple times a day and bend at 30 degrees. So, progressively, hopefully, we just bend it more over the next several weeks.

Benjamin Kreps:

Praise God. I'm sure there's lots of us out there praying for you and so grateful to see you recovering. So last podcast, you talked about what you're learning through the testing of your faith as you've experienced the trial of severed tendon in your knee and you shared with us some wonderful insights about what God is teaching you and deepening you in your faith and your relationship with him. But on this podcast, you want to talk about a different way that God tests our faith in order to grow us in our faith and dependence on God.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I want to talk about it first of all because I think it reveals how much God loves us in Christ and because of Christ. He loves us, but because of Christ, we are his children. And that love is expressed in so many different ways, so many good ways. But one of those is he tests our faith because he loves us. He wants us to have our faith strengthened in him, which not only builds your relationship with him, but it helps you accomplish the things that he's called you to do as a pastor or as a member of a church or as a church community. And we need faith to trust God to do those things.

And so I've been thinking a little bit about that as it relates to church planting. Anybody that was at the pastor's conference last year heard me share my heart and burden that we would take risks to plant more churches here in the States. And those are the kinds of testing of faith that I want to talk about. He tests our faith in trials. James 1 talks about that, but he also tests our faith for the purpose of growing our faith by taking thoughtful risks to advance the gospel. And that includes church planting. And when it comes to church planting, we begin to think about planting a church. Maybe an eldership does or maybe a church begins to talk about it. We can go to the practicals and that's not a wrong thing to do. Many of the practicals are important. Like do we have a person to plant the church? Do we have a guy who can do it? Do we have a location? Is that a viable location? Do we have the finances? Those kind of questions are important to do, but we sometimes miss things that we see in scripture that we're to do. And those things in particular I think strengthen our faith. They test our faith and strengthen our faith.

So the first one is prayer. And I think a great example is in Acts 13, many people know this passage. In Acts 13:1 it says, "Now there were in the church at Antioch Prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon, who's called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manean, and a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrach, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting", so they're together, they're worshiping, they're praying, they're fasting, "the Holy Spirit said, Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. Then after fasting and praying, they laid their hands on them and sent them off." So that missionary journey that Barnabas and Paul took, the very first one was initiated through the process of prayer and the Spirit made it clear to them what they were to do.

So what did that do to their faith? It must have strengthened their faith. I'm certain it did; that when you pray and then you see God answer those prayers, it strengthens your faith for mission and risk to plant a church. And that's been your experience at Living Hope. You pray because you didn't have a church planter and God brought church planters and a year or two later, I forget what it was, you planted that church. And so your church's faith was strengthened because of calling the church to pray. So that's just one thing we are, I think we're called to do that tests and strengthens our faith.

Here's the other one: that is to remain dependent upon the leading and the help of the Holy Spirit. And that's just true in general I think for ministry because we as pastors are called to do things men can't do. I think it's true for every Christian, we are called to do things that we can't do. We share the gospel, but we can't bring about conversions apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. There's just a great story in Acts 16 that talks about that. This is Acts 16:6. "And then they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia." So the Spirit didn't allow them to go to Asia and share the gospel there. "And when they had come to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them." So they didn't go. "So, passing by Mysia, they went to Troas and a vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing there urging him and saying, Come over to Macedonia and help us. And when Paul had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them."

And it is just a great passage of what we see as the mission advances in Acts and it continues to advance today, is the help and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And so we as pastors and churches want to be just mindful that we have a Spirit led mission and be mindful of what the Spirit may be saying to us and leading us. Now, I'm not saying we're going to have visions like Paul did, but the point is that there's a reliance upon the Spirit as the Spirit leads you in ministry like that, it strengthens your faith, it bolsters your faith. And I think we need that kind of confidence in God, that God will meet us in the risks that we take to plant churches.

And one of the passages that comes to mind for that is in 1 Corinthians chapter 3, now Paul here is talking about divisions in the church. He's not talking about church planting. There's a principle in these verses I think that's very important. So Paul in verse 5 says, "What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field in God's building." So obviously the text is making the point. Look, Apollos and Paul are just men who planted and watered. It is God who gives the growth.

And I think that principle of God giving the growth applies to church planting because it's repeated twice in that passage I just read. The point that Paul is making is that God gives the growth and God gives the growth as we send our best. It's risky; what will happen to the church and will we grow back again? Will our finances grow back again? We need to have faith that God will give the growth, but also for that plant. Will God give growth to that plant? Well, you're sowing, you're watering, you're planting, but God will give the growth. And so I think those are just steps of that we are to take in having confidence of God, steps of faith, of having confidence of God that he will give the growth. And so as I was just thinking through this a little bit more, you and I just had a recent conversation about your experience in sending out many of your best and what's happened since then. So I want you to tell that story, Ben.

Benjamin Kreps:

Oh, I'm happy to. I think your encouragement is helpful. There's lots of guys I'm sure would love to plant a church and just don't see how that could happen. And I would echo what you're saying. Here's a significant, perhaps the most significant step you'll ever take in church planting. Start a prayer meeting, start a prayer meeting and just begin praying about it. I think there was a general consensus about where we would plant. We ended up planting where we thought we would. But even in that as we started praying and I was encouraging the church, I was saying, let's just come with empty hands. Let's be willing to be surprised by God giving us or leading us in ways that we don't even anticipate that we can't even imagine yet. And so he did it in a number of ways. But even just beginning with that posture of dependence and willingness to follow the Spirit's leading, I think what you were saying is really important.

And so yeah, we did pray as a church in various ways. We had a prayer meeting where some people committed themselves to praying corporately. People were praying on Sundays, people praying in their families and so forth. Six months later, our church planter, Jeremy Hetrick walks in the door with his family, and talk about faith-building to have that kind of quick response. Now, God, of course, is sovereign over his mission and he decides where and how these kinds of things happen or if they happen at all. And it should be clear that if a church never plants a church that no one should feel condemned and that many churches will never plant a church. There are various ways, I think when you read the story of Antioch in which churches can participate in church planting; praying for other churches and church plants by perhaps sending people from their church or finances to help the church. And certainly through our giving, hopefully 10% to Sovereign Grace, we are participating in those church plant grants, and so just to establish that.

But for us, we prayed, Jeremy arrived, we began to evaluate, I call him a unicorn. And because he had been previously ordained in Sovereign Grace and had served as a pastor, had experience, was trained, an interesting guy. So when we planted, we did so in faith, we had over a hundred people over in this location or near it that could potentially be part of the church plant. We initially said we can't send everyone. I mean there seems to be a limit around 65 is what we thought. And then just at one elder meeting we decided, you know what? Let's just take that limit right off. Let's just go all in and for the sake of Jesus, for the sake of the strength in planting and strength in that church. And so we did send over a hundred people, a quarter of our membership. So when we did it, we were practical. We wanted to be wise. I like how you called it thoughtful risk. Of course we don't want to be foolish, even though sometimes people might think we look foolish in our willingness to sacrifice. I'm going to be thoughtful. We need to care not only for the people that are leaving and the people that are staying of course. And so we endeavored to do all of that and practically ran the numbers.

I think one of the most helpful things, too, is the church planting group and the resources that were supplied. They just held our hands. So if anybody's out there going, well, this all just feels kind of in the ether and theoretical and how do you do it? I'm like, I didn't know how to do it. And the church planting group had all the resources and guidance that we needed so that now on the other side of this church plant, I feel confident, much more confident about it, let's do it again. Now I know what it looks like. So my faith is only grown in that. And in fact, we are evaluating two men who just became pastoral residents on our team and we feel very hopeful that they're going to be leading the next church plant. So potentially plurality.

But in immediately following the church plant, I felt a deep sense of sorrow and loss and I would mutter to myself here and there, what have I done? What have I done to this church? And so that's part of it as well. There's highs and lows and there was a conspicuous decline in attendance immediately following the plant. We took 75 chairs out of our auditorium and planned a budget that had a deficit in it for this upcoming year. Thank God we had some funds to cover that kind of thing. I can report back and say, what's happening seven months later? All the chairs are back in. You wouldn't be able to tell that we have planted. No one would guess we sent a quarter of the church away if they were visiting for the first time. God is providing in ways, the church has always excelled to the grace of giving. And so that continues, thank God, even additional gifts that have helped. And so we are not struggling financially. God has been faithful. We decided to bank everything on the faithfulness of God. That's the way I would put it when I communicated to the church I serve, and God has been faithful. I told the church, I feel a sense of confidence that God's not going to take us out because we risk to see the advance of the gospel in central Pennsylvania.

And there are so many promises connected to giving. I know sometimes guys get a little nervous around promises connecting to giving because of the prosperity gospel, they don't get to have our promises. We get to have those rich and wonderful promises that God will be faithful to us when we give. He will provide, he will replenish our seed for sowing. And so just leaning into all those marvelous promises to build our faith the days ahead. So we are a church now that we're into church planting. It's kind of addictive. So we full well plan to do it again. We're planning to do it again. We keep praying. We started a new prayer meeting this year with focus on corporate. We want to grow in corporate prayer. And so we're seeing a lot more people coming out for prayer meetings and things like that.

So yes, thoughtful risk. It means you're in for an adventure, but following Jesus oftentimes will look like an adventure, just one step in front of the other depending on him, guided by the Spirit. Who knows what will come, but all of it will glorify him and it'll be for our good. So our faith has been tested. There were moments of panic in the whole process, but we come out on the other side strengthened. We have been strengthened in our faith and resolve to endeavor, to take thoughtful risk for Jesus.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, amen. It's a wonderful story. And there are other pastors in Sovereign Grace who could tell similar stories. The pastoral team at Cornerstone Church in Knoxville, they've planted two churches and sent out their best. And God replenished. It's been our experience at Covenant Fellowship Church and church planting over the years Sovereign Grace Church of Orange where Eric Turbedsky is, they planted in Santa Ana and God replenished. So there are just stories of God's faithfulness. So whether it's the stories in scripture, that couple that I read, or the stories that we hear today like the one you just shared, they're intended to strengthen our faith, to test our faith, and to strengthen our faith so that we will take thoughtful risks to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it's still fun first of all, it's just fun to do it. It is an adventure, but it is also God's love to us that he would deepen our faith to send our best and take risks to advance the gospel. He loves that and he's going to bless it.

So I want to end on that. Just let us take thoughtful risks, praying and in dependence upon the Spirit to lead us. And may it lead to the planting of churches. It's not just planting churches. I've said this over and over again. It is reaching those who don't know Christ in that area with the good news of Jesus Christ.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. There's risk and faith for those who send. We've experienced a sacrifice and perhaps even more faith and risk for those who go. But in both of these categories, those who have gone and those who have remained, all of our faith has been strengthened in various ways. And so I think we are more mature now and more eager to engage in the mission of Jesus. So thank you, Mark, for your encouragement. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, you are always in your office standing and yet you are sitting for this podcast and there is a reason why, that you're going to update us about.

Mark Prater:

There is a reason why and it's why we skipped a week on the podcast as well. Let's see, about three weeks ago, maybe four weeks ago, I was at the church, had an evening meeting, was walking down a darker staircase and just missed the last step. And I ruptured my patella tendon in my left knee. So the injury was no athletic move at all. It was just, I missed the last step and the only way to fix that is to have surgery. And so I had surgery two weeks ago, today actually on the recording of this podcast. This is a Thursday. And that surgery went as expected, went well and have the gauze off and it looks like the incision is healing well and we'll start physical therapy either later this week or next week. So I've been a little bit out of action because of that. In God's sovereign kindness, he allowed me to have a knee injury that required surgery and that's why I'm sitting down with my left knee stretched out in front of me.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, so glad the surgery went well. One of the wonderful things though, and I remember you even talking about this right after you experienced just some private conversation after you experienced this injury, was expressing your gratitude for what God's doing in your life through this trial. And actually you are not wasting your trial, you're not wasting your suffering. You are learning lessons in your trial and you wanted to share some of those with us.

Mark Prater:

I do want to share some of those lessons and it is amazing to me how God has used my little suffering, and I say little intentionally because people suffer so much more than I do, this little suffering to deepen my gratitude to God and my love for him and my treasuring of Christ.

And so I'm trying to capture that and learn from this all I can. These are soul lessons. It's a category that I have. So first one is deeper gratitude for the wisdom of God and how he uses suffering. We know those verses from James 1:2-4 where he says, rejoice when you face trials of many kinds for they test your faith. And that's important because faith gets tested, mine's been tested, and that leads to endurance essentially, is what he's saying. Steadfastness. And it's used to build you up in God and in Christ.

And that's been my experience through this little trial over the last several weeks, just marveling at God's wisdom and how he uses trial and suffering to test, and in my case to deepen. I think for most of us to deepen our faith in him so that we will not only trust him more, but we will treasure him more. And if that's the only lesson I have from this trial, there are others, that was worth it right there because I do treasure him more and love him more and am grateful for this trial. So that's the first one.

Second, deeper gratitude for Christians whose suffering is much worse and are examples to me as I've been walking through this time experiencing pain and discomfort, that kind of thing. I'm thinking of people who have suffered or are suffering much more than I have. And I look at them and I think of them and they are such examples to me. One of them would be my friend Alan Redrup, for example, who passed away about a year ago. And how he walked through his final days was just a wonderful example to me.

Here's a third one, deeper gratitude for the word of God. The word of God has, there've been moments where I've clung to it. So before my surgery I was experiencing a bit of fear. And in that moment I was just praying. And the Lord directed me to Isaiah 41:10 where he says, fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you by my righteous right hand. And so that's been a verse I've memorized. It's a verse I was telling myself over again, speaking the truth to myself. And he helped me. And that's because he has revealed himself to us in scripture. And he calls us not to fear because he's with us and he will help us and strengthen us. So just a deeper gratitude for the word of God, a deeper gratitude for my salvation.

I have had moments over the last couple of weeks where I'm in tears when I'm remembering when he first called me to himself. I don't believe I was saved in that moment. It was a process for me. But there was this undeniable moment that I was experiencing something I'd never experienced before that did lead to my conversion and faith in Christ. It was him reaching out to me, not me reaching out to him and he saved me. And so as I went into surgery thinking if I don't make it through this, I have eternity because of Christ only, only because he reached out to me first in mercy. He saved me and that had nothing to do with me. If anything, I was resisting him. So I have a deeper gratitude for the fact that he saved me.

Next lesson, deeper gratitude for the cross. So the pain that I've experienced and continue to experience, at least to some degree is minuscule when I compare it to the pain and suffering that Jesus suffered for all of our sins on the cross. And I'm talking about physical pain. He suffered physical pain, but the emotional pain and then the pain of receiving all the full fury of the wrath of God for all our sins. And the effect that's had on me, Ben, is I just stand back and I treasure Jesus more. I worship him more because that is a great act of sacrificial love that is beyond comparison and nothing like we will ever know. So grateful for the cross.

Next is deeper gratitude for the theologically rich songs that Sovereign Grace Music writes and produces. There have been some of the Sovereign Grace songs, especially from the Psalms project, that have carried me through this time. Psalm 1:21, Psalm 90, Everlasting God, has just carried me and I've sung those. Jill and I have sang those together and they just have strengthened me. So grateful to Sovereign Grace Music and for the kind of lyrics that are being written by members of our churches that are affecting me, helping me and so many others in suffering and trial.

Here's another lesson, deeper gratitude for common grace. You're aware of common grace, but when you experience it through doctors and nurses and medical technicians and through even drugs that can help you get through this, you're just aware of God's common grace that we don't deserve and how he uses even unbelievers in our lives to fulfill his purposes in our lives. And again, I marvel at the wisdom of God and using common grace for his people.

And then lastly, but not lastly, is deeper gratitude for my wife Jill. She's been amazing through this. She just embraces it. She knows how to care for me. She does it well. She is busy, she is active and she's doing an amazing job. I tell her multiple times every day how grateful I am to her. I look for specific ways to encourage her. I was just encouraging her this morning and we've walked through this together as a married couple and we've become closer as a married couple. It's unique. God can use suffering experiences to grow you as a married couple, but he does use suffering. When you walk through it together as a married couple, it brings you closer together. So I'm grateful to God for my marriage. I'm grateful to God for Jill.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. Thanks for sharing these lessons that you're learning. I love that Isaiah 41:10 promise. I love as well that it's in the context of verse eight where God says, you, Israel, my servant Jacob, whom I have chosen the offspring of Abraham, my friend. So as you're experiencing God's friendship and his promises, thanks for modeling for us, a theologically informed trial, theologically informed suffering, cross centeredness in your suffering, applying the promises of God to your suffering. It's wonderful. And these are sweet lessons that you're sharing with us. You also have a couple of practical lessons that you've learned as well that you wanted to share.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, this is a list I've just started. I hope this, I believe this list will grow in the coming days a bit more, but a couple of just practical lessons for me. The first one is slow down. I'm a very active guy. I like doing a lot of things. I like getting a lot of things done. I'm that kind of a guy. I think that's been the most difficult part of this trial for me is not being active and God is slowing me down. So I believe he's teaching me to slow down and reevaluate what I'm doing so I can focus on those things that only I can do in this role in serving Sovereign Grace, which is a process started a little over a year ago anyway, but this is a unique timing of the Lord I believe.

And before this injury, I pre-ordered Cal Newport's book Slow Productivity. And it was just released on March 5th. And I've got it. I'm about halfway through it and I'm learning a lot from a practical standpoint from that book. So the Lord, the day after I injured my knee, I felt like the Lord was saying, Mark, yes, I'm doing this so you can slow down. And then I get this book, Slow Productivity, which has really affected me. I'll talk more about that book in a future podcast.

But here's one more lesson then I'm done. Don't measure effectiveness by busyness, rather measure effectiveness by doing fewer things well that have greater impact. And I think I've been in the mode of sometimes measuring effectiveness by my busyness and the Lord is showing me there's nothing wrong with being active and working hard, but you need to do fewer things and you need to do them well because those things will have greater impact than busyness will. And so that's another lesson I'm going to try to apply to my life.

Benjamin Kreps:

Good. Well hopefully there is some rest happening while you're sitting in your chair in your office, unable to go anywhere. We're so grateful for all of the hard work that you have served us with in Sovereign Grace over the last decade and grateful that there is a God-centered perspective, of course there is with you, in this trial. I think the older I get and the more I read the Bible, the more I just see so clearly in scripture, God's utter sovereignty through other scriptures and what a joy it is to rest, to be able to say, actually my days are in your hands. He was not surprised when you missed the last step and he's working it for your good and to teach you and to grow you, and to bring you into sweeter and deeper fellowship with him. So thanks for sharing all of that with us, Mark. We'll be praying for you. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here, Lord willing, unless maybe Mark falls down another set of steps next week. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, those checking out the podcast are aware that in Sovereign Grace we have seven shared values that we hold in common; theological convictions that call for regular and careful study and growing in our understanding of these theological convictions. One of those being that we are continuation in our pneumatology and you wanted to talk about that.

Mark Prater:

I did. That's one of our shared values. Continuation is pneumatology, and I want to talk about it because we don't want to just be in name continuation, we want to be it in name and in practice as well. And just really want to remind pastors or members of our churches that are listening to this of the language in the New Testament that speaks about our pursuit of the gifts in particular. So in 1 Corinthians 14 verse 1, "Pursue love and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy". And then in second Timothy chapter one, Paul is writing to Timothy. And in chapter one verse five, he's reminding Timothy of his sincere faith. And then he says to Timothy in the next verse, verse six, "For this reason (or because of your sincere faith), for this reason, I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God..."

So that language of earnestly desiring and fanning into flame, that is active language that exhorts us to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts. In other words, they need our intentional pursuit and we need to be reminded of that. That's what Paul is doing in 2 Timothy 1, he's reminding him of his sincere faith and then he's reminding him to fan into flame the gifts that God has given him. And that's so important to us because we need the work and the power of the Holy Spirit at work in the members of our churches and the pastors of our churches because it's the spirit that empowers our gospel ministry and gospel mission. And we will do that best when all of the gifts that God has given every member of a Sovereign Grace church are being used for the common good as it says in 1 Corinthians 12:7, to serve others. And it is an expression of loving others because we are pursuing love. So it's just something that I want to remind our pastors of, that you would be intentional to remind the members of your church to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. I think many pastors can sometimes, if examining life and practice in the church, find themselves in position of affirming being continuatiionist, but practically as cessationist, because the gifts aren't functioning in all their breadth. And so this is a much needed and helpful encouragement. Mark, you wanted to recommend some resources for us because like I said, this calls for our diligent cultivation and study and it includes not a narrow view of the work of the spirit in the gifts, but also a broad view of the spirit's work. And so you had some recommendations for us.

Mark Prater:

I do. I do. And I have these recommendations because I just want to encourage our pastors to make reading on the person and work of the Holy Spirit, just a regular part of your reading diet. I try to do that myself. I need to be reminded of what I'm reminding you of in this podcast. And I think our continuationist pneumatology is best understood within our broader pneumatology, as you just said, Ben. So my first recommendations are really in that broader pneumatology category.

First, would be Jeff Purswell's Systematic Class on Pneumatology that he's taught for I believe two or three years now. And it is outstanding. I just haven't been exposed to anything better. Hopefully that'll be in print form someday as Jeff writes all of that. But if you haven't been to that class, it is worth the money. It is worth the time. It is worth the disruption of your schedule. So that would be Jeff's pneumatology class. That's already happened this year. So you can attend it in the PC class next year.

The next recommendation is one that we've known for years, Wayne Gruden's chapters on the person and work of the Holy Spirit, including his chapters on the gifts of the Spirit. They're outstanding. Another book that was published just about three years ago, if I remember right, I read it a couple years ago, just entitled The Holy Spirit by Gregg Allison and Andreas Köstenberger and they give a favorable treatment for the gifts. So it was an encouraging book to read in that regard. This is a classic most guys have on their shelf: Keep in Step with the Spirit by J.I. Packer. He just looks at the broad work of the spirit, obviously there.

And then one that's a little bit more academic in some sense: He Who Gives Life by Graham Cole. It's a good overall theology of the Holy Spirit or Pneumatology. And reading him, I don't know whether he's a cessationist or continuation, I would guess he's a cessationist, but he doesn't completely dismiss the gifts for today. I thought he expounded that fairly well. So those are some resources on the broad category.

Let me give you some resources that may aim a little bit more at the spiritual gifts. And as I say that one of the things we have to do when we teach on this as pastors is make sure that we keep the gifts connected to the gospel and the work of Christ in our lives. That's really, really important. In fact, just the way that 1 Corinthians is structured is a little bit of evidence of that. So Paul begins in 1 Corinthians 2:2, and he says, "I decided to know nothing among you except (the answer) Jesus Christ and him crucified." So he goes on and he talks about divisions in the church, sexual immorality, lawsuits among believers, food offereings, he talks about the spiritual gifts in each of those topics. What is the one thing that he knows? It is Christ and him crucified. And then he begins to wrap up the letter in chapter 15 saying, "I delivered to you that of which is of first importance". He says that in 1 Corinthians 15:3. And is it the gifts that are at first importance? No. He writes that Christ died for our sins. And he goes on and talks about his resurrection, his appearing, his ascension as everyone knows.

So, keep the gifts connected to the gospel and to the work of Christ among his people. And one of the things that J.I. Packer says in Keeping in Step With the Spirit is that he says that the Holy Spirit shines a spotlight upon Christ in that regard. And that's biblical. Jesus says in John 16:14, "he will glorify me". "He" meaning the Holy Spirit, by revealing to his people what Jesus has taught, which is found in His word. So that's just real important that we keep that connected because that can be a sort of Pentecostal charismatic error to put too much emphasis on the gifts and, I think unintentionally, functionally separate the gifts from the gospel. So when teaching it or talking to your folks about it, be purposeful to do that. So just some recommendations on the gifts. I mentioned Gruden's chapters on the gifts, those are outstanding.

Showing the Spirit by DA Carson, as you well know, is an exposition of 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. It's a very good book. And The Holy Spirit and the Spiritual Gifts by Max Turner. A little more academic but accessible and really good. Gruden has a book that he published a long time ago just on The Gift of Prophecy, another recommendation. So just some recommendations regarding pneumatology in general, the person and work of the Holy Spirit, and the gifts. And just reminder to guys to pick one of those up or order if you don't have it. And make that a regular part of your reading diet, not just to prepare for a sermon series, but to have it influence you as you lead your church to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent, helpful. Mark. One of the things I love about that, we have our seven shared values, but we also have our seven shaping virtues which is exactly what you were talking about. The fruit of a gospel culture, which is found in our shaping virtues. It informs, regulates, the way that we go about this. So I want to serve because I've been served by Christ and God has given me gifts to serve and so I eagerly serve but with humility, with discernment, gratefulness, not haughty or arrogant as some. If you can imagine an arrogant continuation, I think there might be one or two. But it's wonderful that these things are in place to help to apply the gospel to our theology and live out our theological convictions in a way that glorifies God and expresses love for others.

So Mark, thanks for your encouragement and recommendations. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, there's been updates over the last few years on this podcast and various places about the expanding global connections and work that God has given us. But we care about global missions, not merely because we want to see Sovereign Grace get bigger or because it's interesting work, we have received a charge from the Lord Jesus Christ. And you wanted to talk about that.

Mark Prater:

I did. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who gave us that charge. And some might think the great commission, there's the charge there. But I want to just read Acts chapter 1, verse 8. As you know, this is right before his ascension. And he says, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. And Jesus said that before his ascension. And we've seen those words come true. The gospel has advanced throughout Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and now to the ends of the earth. We're seeing that in our day. So what Jesus called us to do, he gave us the power of the Spirit to accomplish and he sends us to do it. And that's why our small family of churches gets to play a small part in advancing the gospel throughout the world because we want to see more people come to know our Jesus and know him as Lord and Savior.

And I'm so grateful for how pastors in Sovereign Grace are working to advance the gospel. One of the things that's so interesting to me, anybody that's read Acts knows this, it's nothing brilliant. But as Acts develops, what you see is that partnerships are formed so that they can advance the gospel together. So Jesus gives these words to the 11 that are standing there and they go about advancing the gospel, but they form partnerships with men and other churches who are their coworkers. Paul becomes an apostle and he forms partnerships and churches working together, represented by men who are coworkers with the original 11. And with Paul, they advanced the gospel throughout the world. And that's still happening today. Not in big apostolic ministry. I don't mean that at all, of course, but churches partnering together to advance the gospel throughout the world.

And it's something that we get to enjoy in Sovereign Grace. It makes building relationally only sweeter as we get to know and serve brothers and sisters and churches throughout the world. And what I just said, we've all heard that before, but brothers, we can't take that for granted. What we have is precious, it's biblical, and it allows us to accomplish what Jesus sent his Spirit to do in continuing the mission that he has given us. So it's a glorious mission. It's a glorious cause, and the joy of it all is we get to do it together in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. I'm so grateful, even as you're talking, so grateful that Jesus gave his original disciples the charge of Matthew 28 and Acts 1 because as they were faithful and invested in other men and transferred that charge to successive generations, that's the human reason why we're Christians here in America. So grateful that we get to actually join in that heritage of global mission is deeply gratifying. And you actually have some updates for us about pastors in the States and working with churches across the world.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I just want to give a few updates of what's happening throughout the world. I haven't done that for a while. And as I do that, I want to illustrate how partnership in Sovereign Grace is happening. So you may be aware or not aware that recently we've added five churches from Pakistan as candidate churches in Sovereign Grace who are now pursuing a partnership, full partnership, with Sovereign Grace. And those five churches are led by men that we've built relationally with for years. And when I say we, I mean pastors in Sovereign Grace. So through our partnership with TLI Training Leaders International, there've been several Sovereign Grace pastors who traveled to the Middle East to sort of a safe neutral country where the Pakistani brothers joined them. And they went through several years of theological training. Men like Scott Crook made many trips. And then Greg Dirnberger and Dave Quilla and many more guys that are in the Midwest Northwest region. Scott's now in the Mid-Atlantic region, but the Midwest Northwest region, many of the pastors there have made trips to serving those pastors. And Dave Quila continues to serve the brothers there in Pakistan.

So it's another illustration of how partnership is working in Sovereign Grace to theologically equip pastors in Pakistan. And five of those are now going to pursue ordination as the next step to move from a candidate church to a full partner church. So it's just wonderful that we actually have five candidate churches in Pakistan right now. Just for the sake of security, I'm not going to use names or get very specific, but we have a Sovereign Grace missionary in Southeast Asia who's advancing the gospel there. And he just had an outreach last week, sort of a community picnic event where the community where he is at was gathered. There were opportunities to share the gospel. It does seem that there's interest in the gospel there and maybe even conversions; time will tell. But it's another illustration of how the gospel is advancing in areas where they've not even heard of Christ before. And the partnership aspect of that is this missionary was sent from a Sovereign Grace local church who continues to be involved in caring for him and his family, and that local church's region is involved in supporting him and caring for that family. So again, it's a wonderful expression of partnership and how the gospel is advancing in Southeast Asia.

Next month in March, Bob Kauflin will travel to Manila. Dave Taylor will travel from Sydney to Manila and join Jeffrey Jo where Sovereign Grace Music with Sovereign Grace Churches Philippines will have three different events and one of those events already has over 3000 people registered for it. And so those are opportunities to gather people. Many of them may be Christians, many of them may not be Christians, to hear the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that's another expression of partnership, a partnership between Sovereign Grace Music and Sovereign Grace Churches. So Sovereign Grace Music isn't just about music. They want to see music help advance the mission of the gospel. And they aid Sovereign Grace Churches in doing that. In this case, Sovereign Grace Churches, Philippines.

Okay, one more illustration. Jacobis Aldana, who is the senior pastor of Iglesia Biblica Soberana Gracia in Santa Marta, Columbia, a church he planted eight years ago and is a candidate church in Sovereign Grace Jacobis, a very good pastor, very good leader, is working his way through our ordination process. He actually traveled to Bolivia to serve David Del Castillo's church, Iglesia Gracia Soberana. They had a big church retreat and Jacobis went there to serve and to preach.

And what's so cool about that is you're seeing partnerships that we've enjoyed in the States for a long time. They're beginning to form and build relationally throughout Latin America. And that's just one story, could tell you many more of how that's happening. So just a few stories and updates of what God is doing through our small family of churches throughout the world, and how partnership is such a vital part of that. And let's remember why we're doing it. We're doing it to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, that people who need the good news, just like we needed the good news, would hear it be born again and come to know Christ as their Lord and Savior, all for his glory.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes and amen. It is wonderful to hear those updates. What a delightful charge that we have been given, that we get to participate in partnership and in the advance of the gospel to the ends of the earth. And so grateful for the many pastors in Sovereign Grace that eagerly and sacrificially travel, leave their families, to serve alongside brothers across the globe. So thanks for the updates and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, those who follow the podcast know that a couple of weeks ago, the leadership team had a retreat with the regional leaders, and that went very well by all accounts. We have excellent regional leaders and this was an opportunity for the leadership team and regional leaders to interact. One of the topics that you discussed that you talked about was the topic of biblical counseling, and you have some thoughts for us about that?

Mark Prater:

Yeah. First of all, I agree with you. We have the best regional leaders here in the states, and I thank God for them. And one of the benefits of doing a retreat with them is we really do learn from them. We get updates from the region, and then we just have these conversations about how can we best serve the churches of Sovereign Grace. That's why the leadership team exists. And so the aim of that whole discussion is to find ways to continue to serve our churches because we love our pastors and we love our churches and want to serve them well. That's the primary task of the leadership team.

And we got into this conversation that was very fascinating regarding basically how the therapeutic culture today can impinge upon the church a bit, and that can have some effects, obviously. But let me talk about what I mean by the therapeutic. It's an age of expressive individualism. I know Trueman uses that term. And you're finding that people, like the therapeutic in the past, are looking for solutions to their problems outside of themselves and not looking first inside where we know that indwelling sin still remains. And we have that fight, the mortification of sin, and how the word of God and the grace of God can be applied to that to really help you grow.

One of the quotes I read to the regional leaders came from a book called Digital Liturgies by Samuel Jackson. He referenced there a paper written by Wilfred McClay. Wilfred McClay is more of an academic. I probably wouldn't recommend you read the paper because it's just the scholarly work that I had to struggle through, but I thought he made a really good point. The title of the article is very interesting, "The Strange Persistence of Guilt", and the sort of the overall observation is there's a strange persistence of guilt that lingers in our culture, and this is sort of the summary that Samuel James gives of that article. McClay is basically saying there's this persistent sense of guilt in our society that has occurred for two competing reasons. And this is what James writes. First, there is the cyclization of guilt and shame. Few ideas enjoy such uniformity of consensus as the idea that any sense of moral failing or despair of one's flaws must be reinterpreted In therapeutic terms, you are not guilty. You are simply held to oppressive standards by your community. Your shame tells you nothing except that you need to actualize your authentic self and do whatever your heart tells you.

Now, here's the second observation. However, despite such therapeutic answers to guilt and shame, modern people do not appear more at peace or reconcile with themselves. Instead, contemporary culture is brimming with unrest, anxiety, and yes, even a profound kind of guilt. And so that's kind of the therapeutic soup that we can be living in a bit that the folks in our churches can be affected by. We as pastors can be affected by.

And one of the effects that we're seeing of that is we find more people that are saying, I need a therapist, or I need a counselor, meaning a therapist or counselor outside of the local church. And of course, let me be very clear about this, there is a place for therapists and counselors outside of the church, but we are concerned that what is getting replaced is the important role of biblical counseling that a pastor is called to provide for his churches, to care for his church as a shepherd. Because that's the wonderful metaphor in scripture, isn't it? That describes that shepherd imagery is used to define us as pastors, as men who are called to care for their flocks. And that's so important.

And we are going to talk about this I think at the Pastors' conference, probably do a breakout session on this topic where we want to try to serve our pastors to help them maintain the priority of biblical counseling in the church so we don't lose that, because we will only find hope in God's word. It's biblical counseling. It's God's word that is living and active that transforms us. And we as shepherds have to help our people apply God's word to their many difficult situations and the grace of God to those difficult situations so that the power of God can transform them and actually bring them hope. And when you talk about grace, you point them to the one who has paid for all of our shame and guilt. There's only one who has done that. And so there's only one who can offer hope to live a life without shame and guilt. And that is Jesus Christ and his finished work in the gospel.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes. That's helpful to be thinking about this topic. I had a guy in our church, young aspiring guy who's going to a conservative Bible college near us who asked me if I had a therapist because one of his teachers told him that every pastor should have their own personal therapist. So this stuff is ubiquitous, whether it's social media, Google ads constantly promoting, you need a therapist, here's the number to call at therapy. This is going to help you. And that's what the people in our churches are breathing each day.

Mark Prater:

That's true. Yeah. In fact, Ben, you just got back from a week at the Pastors College where you intentionally registered and went to attend the pastoral ministry class, which you took many years ago when you were a PC student, but you took it again. So talk about why you took it again and what the effect was on you this week.

Benjamin Kreps:

Took it again because it's been 11 years, and I remember sitting in that class with CJ, being deeply encouraged, edified, strengthened and equipped. But as I told my church last Sunday at the end of the service when I informed them that Kevin Busch and I were heading to Louisville to the class, here's the issue is that I've leaked. I've leaked what I've learned. So spent the past week learning from CJ, I can think of no finer pastor to learn from about pastoral ministry other than CJ, so a deeply edifying, week; invigorating, recalibrating. I came back from that class with a more fervent desire to be a faithful shepherd.

And to that end, I wanted to share a quote that CJ shared with us. CJ had many fine quotes, but this one affected me from Thomas Oden where he says, It is no small effort to which we set ourselves. The task about which we are seeking to think integrally is none other than learning properly to shepherd the body of Christ. One would expect physicians or attorneys to have grasped an integral theory of their task, some overarching conception of their official duty before beginning their practice. And yes, we pray they do, but in ministry in the last decade, some have thought it acceptable to proceed without any such general conception or overarching vision. Here's the money: yet the importance of the office of pastor still quietly pleads with us to think with extraordinary care about the better and worse ways in which that office, shepherding, might be conceived and practiced. And so I heartily agree with you about biblical counseling, that our call to shepherd the people of God takes great care and thoughtfulness. And we need to know the flock. We need to be students of the soul in order to care for the flock. This takes great wisdom, it takes courage in difficult moments, but God provides all that we need in that. And so, amen, may we grow as a family of churches that have pastors who are eager to counsel the people of God with the word of God.

Mark Prater:

Amen. Amen. Thanks for going to that class, Ben. It's such a good class. I'm going to take it again. It's a reminder for all of us as pastors that as Ben said, we leak and we need to have ongoing training. And I couldn't recommend any better place to go than our Pastors College. And so an encouragement to guys, I know it costs money, I know it requires time, I know it affects things locally. Make all those sacrifices because you will become a better pastor by just being equipped and not just being equipped, as Ben said, but rejuvenated for pastoral ministry.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. Excellent. Well, I so appreciate, and I'm sure I could speak for most, if not all of us, we appreciate the careful thought that you and the leadership team and the regional leaders are giving to this important area of addressing the therapeutic world, which is constantly intruding upon our churches, living their lives in this world, surrounded by this kind of language and jargon, and so grateful that you guys are thinking about how to serve us, equip us, strengthen us, to counsel the people of God with the word of God, which is what they need most. So thanks, Mark, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, as we record this, you just got back within the last couple of hours from the retreat that we talked about in the last podcast with the leadership team and the regional leaders. And at that retreat you were telling me about how you shared some encouragement from the scriptures with the regional leaders and you wanted to share that with the rest of us.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I do. Thank you, Ben. And if you're listening to this podcast or read it and you prayed for that retreat, thank you for praying. It was an amazing retreat. God did more than we could think to ask in prayer. He was just very, very good. Came away thanking God for our nine US regional leaders, these men who labor to serve our pastors and churches, those in their geographic region. They are remarkable men that I was actually writing about in my journal this morning, how I thanked God for them and just am stunned that I get to labor alongside of them to serve a small family of churches that we dearly love. So that's one of the effects. I'm walking away with gratitude for the regional leaders. I shared with them some encouragement from 2 Corinthians 11 verses 28 and 29, which I'll read here in a moment.

We had each of the regional leaders just give updates and as they gave updates about their region, just walking through the churches they care for, what was clear is that these are men who carry those churches and those pastors and wives on their heart. They do. They love the churches and they love the pastors. And it made me think about 2 Corinthians 11 verses 28 and 29, where Paul writes, "And apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I'm not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?" And let me just read verse 30. "If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness." And so it's interesting to me that that's what he boasts in because just before writing among other things verses 23 through 27, he just lists a number of ways that he specifically suffered for the gospel.

He was beaten with rods, he was stoned. He received the 40 lashes a number of times he was shipwrecked. He was in a number of different specific kind of dangers that he lists. He went days without sleep and without food. And I just thought, boy, if that was my ministry experience, I might boast in those things. Hey, remember that time when we got shipwrecked? He doesn't boast about that. Yeah, got bit by a snake, viper grabbed me, is not what he boasts about and not the thing that he's carrying on his heart. The thing that he is kind of burdened by or certainly carrying on his heart is this daily anxiety he has for all the churches. It reflects his love for the churches he served. And you see that in our regional leaders. But I think this has local pastoral implications as well because local pastors are shepherds, meaning that they not only know their folks, the members of their church, they carry them on their heart.

And when they're going through suffering and they're going through trial and they're going through difficulty, they're right there with 'em. There is that daily anxiety in that sense, in the right sense of anxiety, of carrying people on your heart. And that's the mark of a true pastor. And it's that he calls a weakness because those things reveal his weakness and therefore he boasts in his weakness and as a result, that's what he wants the Corinthians to know. I mean, this is a world-class scholar, Paul. This is a very gifted man. This is a man who suffered for the gospel, but the thing he's talking about here is his weakness. And I think we as pastors need to adopt that mindset, the boasting of our weakness. And I think there's some good reasons why. So, I was just sharing that with our regional leaders this week, just encouraging them for their heart, for the churches they serve. And I want to encourage our pastors, you men do a remarkable job of this. You carry the people in your churches on your heart, and it's one of the reasons I can't believe I get to serve alongside each of the pastors in Sovereign Grace.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, we appreciate that encouragement. Every pastor who's checking out the podcast right now is nodding their head, knowing this experience of carrying around the weight of care for the people that we love in our churches. But you have a couple thoughts specifically on implications; application for us coming out of that text.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I do. I mean, I think boasting in our weakness, being aware of our weakness, it has many implications in our lives. I just wanted to mention two. The first one is that that weakness frees us from the illusion of omnicompetency. Omnicompetency, because we are men who want to serve well, we want to lead our church as well, we want to pastor our church as well. And we want our people to have trust in us and confidence in us. We want them to know that we are competent, if you can say it that way. But we are not omnicompetent. And so God allows weakness in our life to free us from this illusion of being omnicompetent. And in so doing the weakness deepens our dependence upon God. As a result, Paul boasts in his weakness to identify with the weaknesses of those he serves. He can identify with them, he has compassion for them, but also it's Christ-like leadership to boast in your weakness. Because when he boast in his weakness, when pastors boast in our weakness, we identify with the weakness of Christ, which is most prominently seen at the cross, which he writes in the first letter to the Corinthians in the first chapter, that weakness is greater than man's strength.

And so it is a Christ-like leadership to be pastors who boast in our weakness and D.A. Carson has book entitled The Gospel and the Modern World, A Theological Vision for the Church. It's a book that contains all of his essays or many of his essays I should say all. And it's a book that was sort of just written in honor of him. And one of the essays that he wrote, it's about pastoral leadership in the church. And this is what he says. This is D.A. Carson. While most of us go through life afraid that people will think too little of us, one cannot help but notice that Paul goes through life afraid that people will think too much of him. And he specifically says that in 1 Corinthians 12 verse 6. So weakness, it frees us from this illusion that we have to be omnicompetent. We want to be like Paul. We want to go through life concerned that those we serve might think too much of us. And that's important because we don't want them to think too much of us. We want them to think too much of Christ, a lot of Christ. We want to be shepherds who point them to the one who is truly omnicompetent. So that's the first thing.

The second thing is that weakness frees us from relying upon our own strength. I think that's pretty obvious by the words he's using there. But as you know in the next chapter, he talks about the thorn in the flesh and that's a weakness for him. And Jesus says to him, my grace is sufficient for you, my power is made perfect in weakness. And Paul says, well, great. I'm going to boast in my weakness. I'm going to live content with weakness for when I am weak, then the power of God is strong in my life. So for any Christian I think, but certainly for us as pastors, weakness is the arena in which the power of God works best. It operates. And I think what that means actually is that a good leader isn't afraid to say, I have no idea what to do in this situation. I don't know what to do. Let's pray. Let's go to the one who does know. Let's go to the one who is all powerful. And we want to be men like that because again, it points people to Christ. And I think it's a reminder that at least for pastoral ministry, as pastors, we are called to do things daily, which man alone cannot do. We need the power of God.

In one of his lectures to my students, Charles Spurgeon, he writes, this miracles of grace must be the seals of our ministry; who can bestow them, but the spirit of God convert a soul without the spirit of God? Why you cannot even make a fly. That's a great sentence. Why you cannot even make a fly much less create a new heart and a right spirit, lead the children of God to a higher thing, he means by that holy life. Without the Holy Ghost, you are more likely to conduct them into carnal security. If you attempt their salvation or their elevation, by any method on your own, it won't work. Our ends can never be gained if we missed the cooperation of the Holy Spirit. And so we are men in pastoring our churches and in leading our churches who need the Holy Ghost. We need the cooperation of the Holy Spirit, that the spirit of the Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ fills us and gives us power to do things we can't do, that man can't do, and to do things, when we have no idea what to do in the situation. And so weakness is a very freeing thing. And I want us to be pastors who do boast in our weakness, believing and having faith that the power of God, will mark our ministry, may miracles of grace, be seals of the ministry of Sovereign Grace pastors.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. Last Sunday I began preaching through the book of 1 John. And John talks about how he wants his joy and the people he loves and serves and pastors and their joy together to be complete. And I told my church, I'm unlike John in almost every single way; gifting, theological depth. But I can resonate with John and with Paul's heart as a pastor, as Howard Marshall wrote, that "he is the heart of a pastor which cannot be completely happy, so long as some of those for whom he feels responsible are not experiencing the full blessing of the gospel." And we want our people to experience the full blessings of the gospel, exactly what you've been saying, we need the Holy Spirit's help. We are insufficient for that task, but with God's help, he makes us sufficient. So thank you, Mark. So grateful that you lead us not just as a denominational executive, but as a pastor who cares for us. And so thank you for your care and your encouragement. Thank you everyone for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.