VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, before we started recording, you were informing me that we have a new Pastors College roster for the fall, graduation for the last class happened in June this month, but we have a whole new class that's coming in in just a few months. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. Last week I got the new Pastors College roster of the students that are in the process of transitioning, moving to Louisville over the next couple of months to start classes near the end of August. And it's just exciting to get this roster every year and to see their faces and their names and the churches they're being sent from and most likely will return to. It will be a roster I use to pray for them as well. So I wanted to just tell our Pastors about it. We have nine students in this next class, nine students that represent eight different Sovereign Grace churches from two different nations. Those two different nations are the United States and Australia.

And let me just tell you the churches that are being represented, where the students are come from; Cornerstone Church of Knoxville in Knoxville, Tennessee is sending a student, Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville in Louisville is sending a student, which they've faithfully done for many years. The Cross of Grace Church in El Paso, Texas is sending a student, Sovereign Grace Church in Midland, Texas is sending a student, which is very, very exciting. Living Hope Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, Yeah, not you guys, but the Living Hope in Fayetteville is sending a student. Covenant Fellowship Church where I am and Jared is, in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania, we're actually sending two students this year, which we're excited about.

And then two students from Australia, one from Sovereign Grace Church of Sydney, which is in Wahroonga, and then Sovereign Grace Church of Paramatta. So it's really, really exciting to see the names and really to think about two men and their families, both those guys are married and have kids moving from Australia to come to the Pastors College I think is just a wonderful example to all of us. So I'm excited about this class because like recent classes, these men represent the future of Sovereign Grace and it's one of the reasons I'll be praying for them.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Yes, I encourage everyone checking out the podcast to pray for those men. I guess we'll get some names and faces here in an update at some point before PC, around PC. And so talking about our future, on the last podcast you talked about how you and the leadership team spent a week discussing what Sovereign Grace might look like 10 years from now and how you guys can help us stay faithful over the next decade as there's a transfer to the next generation. The Pastors College plays an important role in what our future will look like in 10 years. Talk to us about why the PC is important to our future.

Mark Prater:

The Pastors College, in my opinion, is vital. It's crucial to our future in Sovereign Grace in a couple of different ways. First of all, to help us stay committed to our theological convictions as expressed so well in our statement of faith. And the second way is they train future Pastors. So let me speak about the first one. First of all, just remaining committed to our theological convictions. I mentioned this in the last podcast. We had a discussion at the leadership team retreat about how do we stay committed to our theological convictions as a denomination, especially as we expand globally. And mentioned that if you just look at denominations historically as they expand, there can be a tendency for some where you see factions or wings within the denomination form a conservative wing and a progressive wing. And is there any way we can lead in such a way that doesn't happen in Sovereign Grace?

And we talked about a number of ways, but one of them is theological training. And we've got to make sure that our Pastors College remains committed to our theological convictions. I don't have a lot of concern there, but we as a leadership team have that responsibility. And so the leadership team has to stay connected to the PC in that regard because in other denominations you see a denominational leadership sort of disconnected from seminaries and they can begin to drift. And then the second thing that you see is just a denominational leadership that drifts itself. So we've got to stay committed to our theological convictions as men on the leadership team. So with that in view, we need to send men to our Pastors College who are trained not only in our theology and what we believe, but also in our values that we share and the virtues that shape our churches. So that's the first reason why it's very, very important.

And then secondly, it's important for our future. I mentioned this before. Over the next 10 years, we will experience I think the largest leadership transition at a local, regional, national, and global level that we've experienced so far in 40 years because we have our first founding generation of pastors that are getting older and will be transitioning primary leadership to the second and third generation. And so this is a way for us to have men that can step into those roles not only in the next couple of generations, but hopefully, Lord willing, generations in the future. So the Pastors College is vital, which is why I spent time at the leadership team retreat, a whole session, exhorting the guys on the leadership team to recruit for the Pastors College. Recruiting for the Pastors College is not just Jeff Purswell's responsibility, it's our responsibility as a team, as a leadership team, collectively and individually. And I really want to exhort our pastors. It is our shared responsibility for our future that we would all take responsibility to recruit capable, gifted young men who have character for our Pastors College.

Benjamin Kreps:

Church history is just littered with evidence that so often liberal drift in a denomination is because it's downstream from seminaries and theological centers of education that were there years before it was discerned in the denomination. We see that happening right now. So couldn't agree more about that. Even if class sizes stay around 9 or 10, it's encouraging to think, and we want larger classes, but even if that was a trajectory in 10 years, we've got like a hundred more pastors trained by the PC and that will make a discernible difference in what our future looks like. So seminaries are good and helpful. We thank God for seminaries, but the Pastors College makes a unique contribution that is different than the seminary experience. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, as you just said, Ben, men do benefit from seminary theological education. There are things that our Pastors College does that a seminary can't do. It's designed that way. It's always been that way. It's the way it was founded when CJ started a Pastors College over 20 years ago, 25 years ago maybe now. And that hasn't changed. And so the person who I think articulates that difference between the PC and the seminary experience, the person who articulates that difference best is Jeff Purswell, the Dean of our Pastors College. And so you and I, we recorded a podcast with Jeff on January 22nd of this year, January 22nd, 2024. And I would encourage all Sovereign Grace Pastors to listen to that. Again, it's available on the website and just be equipped in knowing how to talk to young men who are thinking about going to seminary, which isn't wrong, but how the Pastors College uniquely prepares them for pastoral ministry and leadership in Sovereign Grace. And Jeff articulates that very well. I would say take notes as you listen and that will help you recruit for the Pastors College.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes, it's very good. Please go check that out if you haven't or maybe revisit it. Also, if you're on social media, you can follow the Pastors College on Twitter and Instagram and there's been a lot of content from Jeff about the Pastors College about philosophy of what they're doing there and among other things. So check that out as well. So before we end, there are certainly guys watching or listening to this podcast, reading this podcast who are thinking, well, I'd love to send a guy to Pastors College, but there's a number of challenges. What would you say to guys who feel the challenges, very real challenges that come with sacrifice and the sending of men to PC?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, there are challenges and there are sacrifices. What I've seen over the years, and all guys in Sovereign Grace have seen this. You meet those challenges and sacrifices on the front end. You count the cost and then you go, and then on the other side of graduation, you're like, oh, that didn't feel like a sacrifice at all. It wasn't a challenge at all. In fact, we would do it all over again because how we benefited, how we grew in Christ, how our marriage grew, how we received theological education, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I think the challenges and obstacles feel very big on the front end, and if you can have faith to just address those on the other side of PC graduation, they don't feel like sacrifices at all.

So there's the common one of financial need, how do you pay for tuition and books to attend, and living expenses while in Louisville at the Pastors College? I think there's a lot of ways to raise money for PC students today. And so I think that's an easy one to address, but it's a challenge. There's the disruption of life of moving. If you're married and you have kids, moving a family to Louisville for 10 months, that can seem a bit overwhelming, but I would talk to guys about how much their family will benefit, that it's worth the disruption. And tell stories of guys that you either have sent or know who've benefited from the PC in a number of different ways.

There's also the obstacle of guys maybe having a very good job. They leave it, there's no guarantee they can go back. And so there's the question of can we bring this guy back on our pastoral team? Maybe not. He's going to need to work possibly as a bi-vocational elder. That's a real challenge. And I think that one is another sort of faith issue that you can trust God, that he will provide either the job you did leave or he will provide another one suited to provide for your family and at the same time participate in ministry. So those are our common obstacles we talked about this at our leadership team retreat.

One of the things I was saying to the guys in our leadership team is we've got to be an example. And you see that in this list of students that are coming this year, Jeff Purswell is in Louisville. Louisville has consistently sent PC students. And so they're a great example. We see the example of Covenant Fellowship where Jared and I are at, and we're sending two this year. We've got another guy or two we're thinking about in the future at Covenant Fellowship. We sent students in the past. Obviously there is Tommy Hill who's in Knoxville at Cornerstone Church now. Tommy is not an elder or a pastor, but those elders, that pastoral team has consistently sent guys to the Pastors College.

There's Dave Taylor's example and Riley Springs example of a huge sacrifice to travel around the world. The other part, the other side of the world to come to the Pastors College. Rich, who's at Center Church in Gilbert, he sent a PC student last year. Jon Payne, who's in Austin at Redemption Hill Church has a student he plans to send, not this fall, but the following fall. So we're trying to lead by example as well. And I just really want to highlight this important point. You may not have a PC student or prospective PC student now. You may not be able to send one in a couple of years, but do talk with your team and wrestle with the question, who do we have that maybe we could send three years from now or five years from now? Because as you said, Ben, collectively over a 10 year period, we've got like a hundred more Pastors, which we're going to need 10 years now. So be thinking long term and not just short term when recruiting for the PC.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, having attended the PC myself, having sent Kevin Busch to the Pastors College with all those experiences, I'm eager to send more guys. We have a couple guys that we're exploring right now for potentially next year. And so I couldn't amen your encouragement anymore. So thank you, Mark, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, on a previous podcast, you talked to us about a leadership team retreat that was coming up. You were at that retreat as we're recording this last week. And because you guys are not only a team that thinks reactively about what's going on in Sovereign Grace, but you want to think proactively and get out ahead of things. You were having a discussion about what Sovereign Grace Churches might look like in 10 years and you wanted to talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I put this on the agenda because I really want us to think through this issue. Let me just give you some reasons why I put this on the agenda. And by the way, we had great discussion, which I'll reference in just a moment. In the next 10 years, the next generation of pastors and leaders in Sovereign Grace will be leading our local churches, will be leading regionally, will be leading nationally and globally. That's just due to the ages of the men that are in their sixties and fifties. 10 years from now, they'll be transitioning leadership. In 10 years we will have most of many of our local churches led by the next generation of pastors, which is encouraging. In 10 years, I'm not going to be the executive director, maybe not on the leadership team.

Most likely in 10 years, we will potentially increase the number of churches in Sovereign Grace from the 91 partner churches we have now to 280 partner churches approximately by the year 2034. So that looks a little bit different. In 10 years, we could have more than two ecclesiastical nations. Right now we have the United States and Mexico, potentially an ecclesiastical nation, the Philippines, in East Africa, maybe Ethiopia for example, in Latin America, Costa Rica or Columbia could all be ecclesiastical nations 10 years from now. Because of that, we might have additional clarity on our global ecclesiastical structure, meaning we might have a council of nations that would be sort of like the council of elders, but on a global level. We might have a global leadership team with different leaderships in different nations. And those are just some of the ways that Sovereign Grace might look a little bit different 10 years from now, without being presumptuous, of course. And all dependent upon the grace of God.

And I mentioned all this to the leadership team because I think we have this both wonderful and strategic responsibility right now. It's actually twin responsibilities. So the first one is that we have this obligation to prepare our family of churches for the transition that will occur over the next 10 years. And then the second responsibility is that we have to lead in a way right now that Sovereign Grace is what we would hope for after that transition occurs 10 years from now. So that's why I put this topic on the agenda so that we could plan and strategize and lead well now in a way that impacts the future of Sovereign Grace 10 years from now. And as everyone knows, listening or reading this podcast, 10 years goes by pretty quick. So we've got to get to work as a leadership team.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. It is thrilling to think about what Sovereign Grace might look like globally in the years ahead, just even thinking about potentially a globally diverse leadership team overseeing things and helping not just in North America but across the globe. And so it sounds like it was a wonderful conversation and an important one to have as well. So Mark, what do you hope Sovereign Grace churches looks like in 10 years?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I'll give you some of my thoughts and also some of the thoughts from guys on the leadership team that shared during the retreat. I mean, one of the ways I hope Sovereign Grace looks like 10 years from now, I wrote it this way, churches that are led by second and third generation pastors who in the presence of cultural pressures or possibly even persecution, are courageously committed to expository preaching, to being biblically faithful, to being gospel centered, and building with our virtues and values in a way that we remain devoted to the mission that Christ has given us to reach all nations with the good news of Jesus Christ. That's sort of a summary. May we be that in 10 years from now.

Jeff Purswell mentioned that our entire body of elders 10 years from now would be standing firm on our statement of faith and our theological convictions. Jeff also said this, that the continued outworking of our ecclesiology, such that our local practices are increasingly consistent across partnership, pastorally and theologically. In other words, we're wanting to see some degree of methodological consistency while factoring in cultural differences that are going to be obvious in different parts of the world. So we shouldn't have this big variance theologically not only in conviction but in practice as we go from generation to generation in Sovereign Grace. I just thought that was really well said.

Jon Payne mentioned, here's what I hope we look like in 10 years, that we stay true to our core, which he defined as one theological consistency that isn't dependent on Jeff because we need other guys that will take Jeff's place. Second, zeal; that we would continue to have a zeal in our passion for God and zeal for our passion for God's people, a pastoral heart that we want pastors to have. And three, strategic leadership positioning; that we have the right strategic leaders in the right positions throughout the world. And Dave Taylor just mentioned the hope that we are doing a good job of reaching the unreached 10 years from now. So those are just some of the comments that the guys made.

The other thing that we dropped into, just because you can see this in church history, as denominations expand, as they grow, that there can be this vulnerability for factions to actually be created within the denomination, we might call them progressive and conservative wings of the denomination. So how do we lead now in such a way that those don't form in Sovereign Grace? And we've only got a few ideas there. That is a conversation we need to continue as a leadership team.

Jeff had, I thought, a really good observation where he said, what you see is either denominational leadership that is disconnected from seminaries and or denominational leadership that goes astray theologically. That's what you begin to see. And the reason why denominational leadership needs to stay connected to seminaries is seminaries are training future pastors in a lot of denominations. And if they go astray, then the denomination can fracture that way. And so we've got to just remain true to our pastors college as it currently exists so that it doesn't drift in any way, and that requires denominational leadership and we need the right guys on the leadership team so that we don't go astray theologically. So I just thought that was a wonderful observation on his part. Anyway, so just to kind of pull that out, so we've got some ideas on how to lead in a way that we continue to remain faithful to our theological convictions and statement of faith even if God allows for us to expand globally.

One other thing in that conversation that I just briefly touched on and gave to the leadership team is from a chapter in D.A. Carson's book. This is the title of the book, The Gospel and the Modern World, A Theological Vision for the Church. If you don't have that book and you're a pastor, get that book. There's some wonderful chapters in that. The one I'm referencing is a chapter entitled Subtle Ways to Abandon the Authority of Scripture. And what Carson does is he has 10 different ways that we can abandon the authority of scripture and we can basically drift theologically, and as Carson points out, we're not surprised at this observation that theological drift happens subtly. And so I would encourage you to read the whole chapter.

I'm just going to mention a few of those 10 points. Number one, he says, an appeal to selective evidence. Some theological drifts are obvious, others are more subtle. This is what Carson says, the simple refusal to talk about disputed matters in order to sidestep controversy in the local church for the sake of peace, we offer antodine treatments of hot topics like homosexual marriage or gender issues in the forlorn hope that some of these topics will eventually go away. The best antidote is systematic expository preaching for such preaching forces us to deal with texts and those issues as they come up. I just thought that was so well said. Let us be faithful to expository preaching and faithful to the texts and not afraid. Have the courage to address hot topics, as he said, that will keep us from drifting theologically.

Number six, the sixth one he listed: too little reading. So guys, we got to read; pastors and members of our churches got to read, and he says this, especially the reading of older commentaries and theological works. It was interesting he said that. Here's number seven: the failure to be bound by the formal principle and the material principle; the formal principle that constrains us in the authority of scripture, the material principle that constrains us in the substance of the scripture, the gospel itself. And we need both. I just thought, oh, that is so well said. So there's the few points from Carson's 10 points of how you can drift theologically that I shared with the leadership team. And we talked through those a little bit, a great chapter for pastors to read and to be reminded of how we can drift theologically so that we remain committed to our statement of faith, not only now, but 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and 30 years from now, should the Lord allow us to exist for that long.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. I'm so grateful for you men and the wisdom and insight that you're communicating to us that you guys experienced in your discussion at your retreat. Thankful for your guys' sacrifice of regularly leaving home to gather, to serve Sovereign Grace. There was a guy at our recent guest reception essentially, who was visiting from a denomination that has drifted completely off of God's will for the church. And he asked me the question honestly. He said, how do you know that won't happen to Sovereign Grace? And I said, that's a good question. We do not want to be self-righteous or prideful in thinking that it couldn't happen to us. And so, how grateful I am to hear, and I'm sure everyone checking on this podcast, to hear how you guys are going to be helping us to stand firm in the days ahead. So thanks, Mark. Thanks for the update. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here, Lord willing next week. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, your knee is on the mend and you are on the move once again. And as you talked about on the last podcast, you are at the Global Leaders Retreat, which has been going really well as we were talking before we started recording. What's that been like? What's going on?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's still happening right now. I just stepped away while Jeff Purswell is leading the session which, because it's Jeff, it's very hard to leave, but wanted to record a podcast.

The Global Leaders Fellowship Retreat is going really, really well. You plan, you prepare and you pray. But God has been so kind to answer our prayers yesterday. It was just a day where we heard updates from the men that are serving in different nations. So the nations we heard updates, obviously some of 'em were Italy, Ethiopia, Australia, Pakistan, Nepal are just some of the nations that we heard updates on, Mexico and Latin America. And I laid down last night and went to sleep and put my head on the pillow. And I was just thanking God for our day yesterday because it was humbling, it was challenging, it was inspiring and it was instructive on all those levels in each country.

It's humbling to hear what some of these men are facing, some of them, really severe persecution as they advance the gospel of Jesus Christ in their nation; to hear how they're committed to the word of God and advancing the gospel despite that persecution was faith inspiring. To hear some of the guys talk about the future that they see in their nation was also inspiring.

And then it was just very instructive. We as a leadership team, we just took notes all day because we're just learning from them and hopefully we plan to debrief after this retreat and just say, okay, what do we learn from this and how can we be serving these pastors who are representing Sovereign Grace in different nations? So it was such a good day. I don't have time to drop into stories, but they are faith building and they're inspiring all at the same time. So we get to serve with a group of men throughout the world that is truly a privilege to serve with in the cause of Christ in advancing his gospel.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. I just love the dynamic of give and take. I mean you guys are there, the leadership team is investing in the global leaders, but these men are also equipping the leadership team through their example, a compelling example. I remember being at a gathering a few years ago before the pastor's conference of a bunch of guys from around the globe giving updates. And I just remember being deeply humbled as they talked about the challenges they face and their faithfulness in the face of hostility. And I remember it got to me and Dave Taylor was asking, how can we pray for you? And so it got to me and I was sort of like, we have a VBS that's coming up, so I know exactly how you feel, the humbling effect of being in the presence of faithful men like these leaders. But this isn't the only retreat that you're involved in because next week the leadership team will remain and you will have a retreat just for the leadership team. Tell us about what's going to happen at that retreat next week.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, because we're together at least the guys on the leadership team attending this retreat with the global leaders, I wanted to talk about a couple of things, or actually let me mention some things that we'll be doing at the leadership team retreat.

The first one is really to debrief from this week because all of us are taking notes and learning and we're wanting to just talk about what did we learn to serve these men more effectively, to serve their churches more effectively? What did we learn in advancing the gospel in different parts of the world in terms of challenges they're facing and how can we serve them in that? So we'll spend quite a bit of time doing that, but I've always got a long agenda. We never get through all of it. I design it that way. But I just wanted to point out a couple of things on that agenda just for our podcast listeners or podcast readers to be aware of and even be praying for as we work through these issues.

So the two issues are this, first of all, I've designed an entire discussion, Sovereign Grace in 10 years, and it's really more of a future oriented type of discussion I want us to have because there are things that we can do now as a leadership team that can impact Sovereign Grace 10 years from now. So I've got some questions I wrote that the leadership team guys will come and we'll just answer together, questions about for example, what do you hope Sovereign Grace looks like 10 years from now? What would that look like? And just building on that, just trying to figure out how do we lead in a way now, that Sovereign Grace will be what we hope for, this is why it's important.

By God's grace, we are becoming a global multi-generational family of churches. So as we expand in different nations, which is all of God's doing and God's work, and as we pass leadership to the next generation, we can't assume that things will always be as they are now. And so we have to prepare for that kind of transition.

Here's the other thing that I've been thinking about and pastors who they know this, as you study denominations historically and you see them begin to grow again by God's grace, what can happen in some of those denominations is that fractures begin to form. You've got a conservative wing or a progressive wing theologically within that denomination and it causes issues. So we could be vulnerable to that if we are growing and expanding globally, that could happen in Sovereign Grace. So what do we do as a leadership team to keep that from happening? And I've been thinking through some of those answers. I don't know if they're any good or not because the other guys will help me figure out if they are. But we really want to try to unpack that a bit as well as a means to serve the future of future generations in Sovereign Grace.

So that's going to be a really important discussion. 10 years is going to go by fast and in that 10 years, 10 years from now, half of our churches will be led by the second generation and maybe more than half. And so what will those churches look like and what will our family of churches look like? So that's one conversation.

The other one is because of what I've mentioned last year at the pastor's conference and just referenced in my comments that I just said, about half of our pastors are in their fifties and sixties. And so the primary leadership of our churches and of Sovereign Grace is going to transition in the next 5 to 10 years to a second generation. And so we've really got to think through that as well.

And so I've got a whole session planned on leadership transition principles and maybe best practices because I think when you think about leadership transition, you can begin to think very practically, which isn't wrong because there's a number of steps you have to think through.

I want us to think, obviously, biblically first because there's principles in scripture that you see. And then I want us to just talk about what is it that we want to model in a transition, not only leadership team transitions, but even how we hope this serves our pastors. What can they model to their church and to the future generation of pastors in Sovereign Grace so that when another transition occurs 30, 40 years from now, there's been something modeled that is biblically based, that is God honoring and that serves the church and brings glory to Christ.

And so we've got a whole conversation planned and my hope is to come away with what do we want to model; some principles, maybe even some best practices that can somehow be packaged together and made available to our churches as these transitions happen over the next decade. So as you can hear, this leadership team retreat is a lot future oriented, although it's not that far in the future. It's only 10 years in the future. And that's intentional on my part to put an agenda together like that. We will talk about present issues in Sovereign Grace, but we just need time to pull away as a leadership team and have those longer strategic, future oriented discussions.

So those are just two that we're having. And if you think of it and you're listening to this podcast or reading it, please pray for us and ask that God would give us wisdom because we don't have all the answers. He knows what will, Sovereign Grace will look like in 10 years. He knows how those transitions will go. We don't. So we need him and we need his help and we need his wisdom. So please pray if you would.

Benjamin Kreps:

Will do. Thank you, Mark for the update. Thanks to all the guys on the leadership team that are participating in this week as we're currently recording with global leaders. And then next week when this podcast drops at the retreat, I know that standing behind that assembly of leadership team guys, is sacrifice. You guys have left wives and kids and church, spending time together to serve us and I thank you to all the guys for the ways that you serve us and think about the future and the present.

So thank you, Mark, and thank you, leadership team guys, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, those who are following the podcast know that a number of months ago you hurt your knee, you tore a tendon in your knee. The good news is you're healing nicely right on track. Your doctors are pleased with your progress, but what that also means is that you are back to your regular busy slate of retreats and traveling, which includes next week a retreat for global pastors in Sovereign Grace churches. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. First of all, if you prayed for my knee and my recovery, thank you for praying, God answered those prayers. My knee is, I think, where it's supposed to be, the doctor's really pleased, still doing some physical therapy, but very pleased with progress. It does allow me to travel, which I'm looking forward to going to the Global Leaders Retreat.

Myself and other leadership team members will be there. Then a leadership team retreat will follow. It's kind of what we did in February where we had a leadership team retreat and we invited the regional leaders. In this case we're going to the global leaders and starting with their retreat. And that's very strategic for us because we have men in different parts of the world who are leading and building Sovereign Grace with us in their respective nations. And we want to invest into them and care for them and equip them. And that's what this retreat is all about. So in that sense, it's very strategic.

The other purpose of the retreat is really for the leadership team to learn from them. Just like we learned from our regional leaders in February at our retreat, we will take a lot from this retreat that will help us to serve our pastors and churches better, not only here in the States but throughout the world. And so we're looking forward to benefiting from the input and the feedback we hear from them.

So let me tell you just who's going to be there. Not all of our global leaders are able to make it, but Faras from Pakistan is able to come. Barnabas from Nepal, Ed O'Mara and Rocco Dalia from Italy will be there. Michael Granger from Ethiopia, Riley Spring from Sydney, Australia, our leader in Australia. Carlos Contreras, who is our leader in Mexico. Joselo Mercado, as you know, travels throughout Latin America. Jeffrey Jo in the Philippines isn't going to be there. He just didn't have time to get a visa and wasn't able to meet immigration requirements. So we'll miss him, for example. And then some of the guys on the leadership team will be there. As I mentioned in previous podcasts, the February retreat, we have the entire leadership team there. And then I sort of determine who comes from the leadership team to the other two retreats. For this retreat, it'll be obviously Dave Taylor, who's our Director of Global Missions, he's coming from Sydney, as well as Jeff Purswell, Jon Payne, and myself. Jared, his second oldest, his son Ben, is graduating from high school. I want him to stay home because that's more important than a retreat.

So those are the guys that are gathering together next week. And if you think of it, please pray for this retreat and pray for each of those men that I just listed. Not only that God would encourage them and equip them during this retreat, but also continue to pray for them as they lead in their respective nations.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. That is quite a roster that will be gathering at the retreat. So grateful that God has given us the privilege of partnering with these excellent leaders across the globe, around the world. And so eager to hear how that retreat goes. And you actually want to talk to us about what's going to happen at that retreat.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I want to just because I think it's just good for folks to know. I want folks to know, and it can inform your prayers as well. So we're going to start and really spend the very first day just getting updates from each of those guys. We're asking for updates about their family, about their church and about their nation. And then after they give those updates, we want to hear what are the challenges they're facing in their nation as they build Sovereign Grace in their nation. And I think that'll be just a good day for us as a leadership team just to hear and to learn not only to care for them and to pray for them, but also to think about what we can do to serve them in the challenges that they're facing in ministry. It'll be interesting to see how some of those challenges maybe are the same as the states and how they're different than the states. And so I'm really looking forward to that discussion.

And then we've got some teachings that are planned. There are shorter teachings because we want them to set up a discussion. So I'm going to be teaching a message leading toward godliness. The purpose of that is to encourage our leaders to build godly churches and to lead in a way that we build godly churches. And that will set up a discussion that we'll have about how to do that. Jon Payne is going to be teaching on leading towards team ministry. Jon's got excellent material on team ministry and we want to continue to build plurality in team ministry as we expand throughout the world. So that will be a real important teaching and then conversation.

Jeff Purswell is going to do a sermon or a message on leading toward the future. And really that focuses in on 2 Timothy 2 to develop future men and trust the faithful men, the work of the gospel. So it's identifying and equipping future men. It's really more the weight of that text that Jeff brings across for a pastor, that this must be on his job description, if you can say it that way. Developing future pastors. And then Dave is going to be teaching on leading towards clarity and really what he's going to do, I'm so glad he's doing this one, the subtitle is "just seeing through the fog when life is a lot". And I think for any pastor anywhere, life can be a lot, but you think about places like Pakistan where there's persecution, some things we don't face here in the states in quite the same way. That feels like even more than a lot. And so it'll be a great chance for Dave to speak into that biblically and for us to care for our leaders.

So that's a little bit about what we've got planned and discussions we hope to have with our guys. And again, thank you for praying for this, what I think is, a very strategic retreat for the leadership team with our global leaders.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. Well, it sounds like an excellent agenda that you're going to enjoy together with these global leaders. It's encouraging that we get to benefit from these men and their particular context across the globe and learn from them. And then that our leadership team can actually bless these men with the excellent encouragement and teaching that we've enjoyed here in North America over many years. So thank you, Mark, for the update. Let's all be praying for this retreat. Thanks for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, before we started recording the podcast, you were telling me about how you and Jon Payne met over Zoom with the regional leaders to give them an opportunity to interact with Joel Shorey, our new director of church planting. And you were talking about how you benefited from some of the input that the regional leaders gave you and you wanted to talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. Jon and I met with the US regional leaders along with Joel Shorey just yesterday. And I did benefit from the input that I heard from the regional leaders. It's another example of how the leadership team benefits from our regional leaders. They help us to lead better, they help us to serve our churches better. And I came away from yesterday's conversation, especially grateful for their input. Here's what we got talking about, we were just drawing Joel out on a number of questions about his goals and vision for church planting. But in the midst of that conversation we got talking about risk because I called us at the pastors' conference last year to take risks to plant more churches, to take thoughtful risks, take wise risks to plant more churches here in the United States for the purpose of reaching more people with the good news of the gospel.

And in that conversation, really what came out was that that risk maybe needs to be nuanced just a little bit more. Where do we want to be low risk and where should we take risk? And it was a really good conversation. In fact, Rob Flood, the Northeast regional leader recommended that you and I devote a podcast to it. And I said, you know what? I might even do that today. Today we're recording it. And so again, I thank God for our regional leaders. They help me be a better leader. They help me serve our churches better. And with any leadership issue, a lot of times leadership requires nuance and clarification. And I hope this podcast provides that. And again, I've benefited from the regional leaders yesterday, so in calling our pastors and churches to take prayer filled thoughtful risks to plant more churches. Here's what we mean by risk.

First of all, these are categories where we want to be low risk. We want to be low risk with a man's character according to 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. I wouldn't use the term no risk because not every man is perfect, but we want to be low risk. We want to send a guy who has proven Christ-like character. So that would be a category. We want to be low risk regarding Sovereign Grace's theological convictions. And does the potential planter not only know our theological convictions? Does he own them? Does he understand them? Can he communicate them? Are they a part of his DNA, so to speak? So that category is low risk.

And then we want to be low risk when it comes to a man's ability to plant and to build a Sovereign Grace church that is marked by our shared values and our shaping virtues. Because those things are really the fruit of the gospel working out in our lives that we want to mark our churches and we want Sovereign Grace to continue to be not unique in that way, but distinct in that way. And does he have the ability to do that? So those were categories that we were talking about that are low risk.

I would just add a couple of other thoughts, and I don't know how to quite quantify the risk ratio there, but pastors plant churches, that's what we've said in Sovereign Grace. And in other words, does he have a pastoral gift? Can he shepherd and pastor people? Because when you plant a church, you immediately begin to pastor people. And so is there an evident pastoral gift in his life that he can utilize when he plants a church? And then what we've found is that guys who have experience in pastoral ministry really are more situated to plant stronger churches in many cases. Now that's not an absolute rule, but guys like Joel Shorey and Walt Alexander had 13 to 15 years of ministry experience before planting a church. And those churches are thriving. That doesn't mean we would not send young men to plant churches, but we might send an experienced pastor with him because of the benefits that you gain from years of pastoral ministry in terms of what you learn.

So just to clarify, those are the things that we want to be low risk on: character, theological convictions, the ability to build a Sovereign Grace Church, can a man pastor people? Just to bring a little bit of clarity as to what I mean by risk.

Benjamin Kreps:

That is helpful clarification. Thanks, Mark. When it comes to taking risk though, what do you mean by encouraging us to take that kind of risk? So we want to be low risk on what you talked about for sure. And I think that involves a season of assessment living alongside this man and his wife and kids and observing family life and marriage and all of those things and understanding our convictions. But we do want to take risks in some ways. What do you mean by that?

Mark Prater:

What I mean is really something I thought Eric Turbedsky shared really well, our regional leader in the West. He said, at least in my part of the world, I think a lot of churches have been planted out of necessity. And what he meant by that is that you've got a guy on your pastoral team, he's definitely gifted, but you don't have financial room to bring him onto your team. What do you do with a gifted guy like this? And so you send him out and he plants and he does a great job that's really driven by necessity versus, as he said, that's not really as much motivated by missional risk. And so when I'm talking about risk, I think Eric's right about that. I think it's a matter of are we to take risks for the sake of the mission of the gospel? Meaning that, are we willing to send our best? Are we willing to send an experienced guy that we really love doing ministry with out to plant a church that requires a lot of faith? Are we willing to send some of our best members to give him a good church planting core team that he can build with? Because it's that kind of risk that needs to be taken for the sake of the mission of the gospel.

And where you send the guy, I think can partly factor into that risk category. I think that also when you're thinking about a guy that might be more high risk, however you might define that, whether it's further away from you or it's a little more difficult place to plant in, I think his preaching gift is really important there, depending on the place. And does he have a sufficient preaching gift to build a church in an area that would really need that kind of high level preaching gift that might be different for a context where you might send the guy where it feels a little bit more low risk, a little bit near to you geographically, you kind of know the area and the guys that fit for that area. Does he need to have the same level of preaching gift? I don't know that he does, but you have to really assess all of that. The point being is we're trying to reach areas where there's not much of a gospel presence and we're willing to take risk for the sake of the mission.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, that's excellent. I remember hearing from people that follow the podcast, many of them know we planted a church last fall. And I think your encouragement is so helpful because I remember going to conferences and listening to teaching about how you're going to have to send your best, you're going to have to send your best. And that's all theoretically, of course, I'm happy to do so. But when the moment comes, it is painful and it does feel risky. And so it requires faith when you're sending people and money out the door. But it's totally worth it. Like I've told my church, we get one shot at this. And so Jesus is worthy of attempting to do difficult things and to take wise risk in doing so.

Thank you, Mark, for your continued encouragement in this area. May God give us the privilege of planting more and more churches in the days ahead. So thanks, Mark. Thank you regional leaders. You're serving us so well. You're getting it done. So we're so grateful for you. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, many people checking out this podcast, many guys, these pastors checking out the podcast, received an email recently informing us that we have a new Director of Church Planting, Joel Shorey. And so a question is, why is it important for us to have a Director of Church Planting?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's a great question. And for those that are listening to this podcast and don't get my emails like maybe a member of our church, one of the members of our church, Joel Shorey is the Senior Pastor of Redeemer Fellowship in Newark, Delaware, a church he planted six years ago out of the church. I'm at Covenant Fellowship Church where he served in pastoral ministry 13 years there before planting a church. So he's got almost 20 years of pastoral ministry experience. And for those that don't get the email, and maybe those who do, just a reminder, this is a non-leadership team director role, kind of like Bob Kauflin as Director of Sovereign Grace Music or Eric Turbedsky our Director of West Coast Development. So we have directors that are not on the leadership team. We wanted Joel to focus on church planting without being encumbered by additional denominational wide leadership team responsibility.

So here's a quick little bit about Joel and the role that he's in. So why do we need one? That's the question you asked me. There are four reasons why we believe as a leadership team that we need a Director of Church Planting. The first one is our mission. Our mission is this: we are a family of churches who advance the gospel of Jesus Christ together by planting and strengthening churches throughout the world for the glory of God. So it seems like if planting churches as one means to advance the gospel is a part of our mission, then dedicating someone to church planting seems like it will strengthen our mission. So that's the first reason.

Second, last year at the Pastors Conference, I called our pastors to take more prayer-filled thoughtful risks to plant more churches, especially here in the United States. And I called us to do that, not to grow Sovereign Grace, but to reach more people in this world who don't know Christ as their Lord and Savior. So it's at the heart of that, a call to risk, is the gospel itself and seeing people come to know Christ as their savior. That's the second reason.

Third, Eric Turbedsky, our previous Director of Church Planting, just did an outstanding job of serving us in that role for over a couple of years, maybe three years if I remember right. And once he transitioned out, we as a leadership team, we did notice a vacuum that was left there. And we wanted to fill that with a good leader, which we think Joel is.

And then fourth, without a Director of Church Planting, Jon Payne took on the responsibility of just working with Mike Seaver, who oversees and leads the National Church Planting Committee. Thank God for Mike. He keeps so much of our church planting machinery moving forward. And those on the National Church Planting Committee, they do a lot of good work that a lot of people don't know about. But Jon was giving them direction and leadership. So I was wanting to get that responsibility off Jon's plate. That's a very practical reason, but a reason that was in our thinking in selecting Joel as our next Director of Church Planting. So please pray for him as he steps into this new role.

Benjamin Kreps:

Appreciate the wisdom of the leadership team. I can think of no finer choice actually for that role than Joel. He is a compelling example of a faithful pastor and planter. So what will Joel be doing in this new role?

Mark Prater:

Well, one of my prayers is that the spirit of God is at work in our churches in obviously a number of ways, but one of them stirring, first of all, pastors, to take faith-filled risks to plant churches, to send out their best like you've done Ben, but also men in our churches who are being stirred by the spirit to plant churches. So what Joel is doing, I pray, is first being led by the spirit of God, that God would lead us and help us to take more faith-filled risks to plant churches.

And so what Joel's going to do is simply serve you, the pastors of Sovereign Grace Churches, in planting a church. And if you've never planted a church before, please pray about doing so because it will change your church. It will strengthen your church in so many ways. And so Joel is coming alongside of you and serving. He's not coming as the church planting expert. Now let me qualify that. Of course, he's going to study church planting. He wants to know the church planting world. He wants to find resources that will help us, but that's not Joel's heart. What Joel's heart is, and you see this in his own church planting experience, is he wants to reach more and more people with the gospel of Jesus Christ through the planting of churches. And so he wants to serve you. You know your context better than he does. You know where to plant better than he does. He wants to resource you, he wants to help you. He wants to serve you in any way he can. There's a distinction between being a church planting expert and being a guy who's got a heart for the gospel and wants to see more churches planted. And you'll be hearing more from him on that in talking with him. By the way, he's so excited about this role. It's one that he seems fit for. We talked about, actually to be straightforward, three different candidates for this role. All were very good candidates. It was a very hard decision and all have planted strong Sovereign Grace churches, Joel is just a fit for it, we think. And you see that in his enthusiasm and excitement. And so you'll be hearing from him and you'll hear his enthusiasm as he helps us to plant more churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. Well, eager to experience Joel's leadership in the days ahead as he leads the church planting team, the church planting group which is just by the way, so helpful. Anybody considering planting a church and you feel uncertain about what that's going to look like and what the process is, they will resource you and lead you carefully, thoughtfully, through the whole process. So eager for Joel's influence to be felt in all of that. Why don't we end here with that encouragement, repeating for us, reminding us of the encouragement that you shared with us at last year's pastors conference.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. The encouragement really is taking faith-filled risk to plant churches. And I mentioned this in a podcast, I don't know how many episodes ago, but several episodes ago, and I read from 1 Corinthians 3, and I'm going to do that again for 1 Corinthians 3. Let's keep the context in view. There are divisions in the church, people are following Apollos and Paul, et cetera. And so Paul's writing to correct all of that. But he writes in verses six and seven, I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. So let us plant and let us water with faith believing that our good God will give the growth. Because as the text says, we're not really anything because it is God who gives the growth. And one of the joys about church planting is seeing God get all the glory when a church is established, when a church is in a community reaching people who don't know Christ. That is a work of God that man can't do without God. And so let us plant more churches for the sake of the gospel, but as our mission says, for the glory of God alone.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. Thanks for that encouragement, Mark. Thank you for the update. God bless you, Joel, as you serve us in the days ahead. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. I imagine by now, Mark, that members and pastors of Sovereign Grace churches have been benefiting from Sovereign Grace publishing. I know Jared Mellinger established that on the leadership team and it's wonderful to have access to resources published by Sovereign Grace for Sovereign Grace people. But a question is why are we publishing?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I'm very grateful for Jared's work. He really has had that responsibility to lead us in publishing since he stepped on the leadership team and recently as a leadership team, we decided to sort of formalize all of that, formalize the department by giving him the title of director of publishing, which is what he's already been doing. So it's just a no-brainer decision on our part, but we wanted to recognize the work and really the importance of that work for our family of churches.

Why do we publish? We want to publish resources primarily to serve our churches. We want to have resources that can serve our members that they can benefit from. And there's several resources like the Journal that's been published and recent books that have been self-published by Sovereign Grace that serve our members. And we're developing right now, “Theo-Pastoral” resources sort of in the line of the old perspective series, if guys remember that who've been around for some time.

So right now Josh Blount is working on a complementarianism one, for example, and there's a book being worked on, on elder governance, and just why that defines our polity that way and has a chapter on Congregationalism to make the distinction between our polity and congregational polity. So those will serve, I think, those can serve our members, but they're written a little bit more theologically and we hope will serve our pastors as well. So that's the first reason.

The second reason is we want to publish resources because they do, if they're done well, they will endure over time. And so we're thinking about future generations in Sovereign Grace, not just the next couple of generations who will be pastors and members of our churches. We're thinking about those we'll never meet and we want those resources to continue to influence and shape them as we build gospel-centered churches that are marked by our shared values and our shaping virtues. So those are the two primary reasons that we publish and we think it's very, very important. And I'm very grateful for Jared's initiative because we've got a number of new resources up on our website.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful. The Journal and the books have all been a blessing over the last couple of years. I think one of the things I appreciate is because these resources are being written by Sovereign Grace pastors, then those who read what's being published can trust that these are men who share our values and our shaping virtues. And so these can be trusted pastors that we're reading who share our convictions in Sovereign Grace churches. You mentioned that on the website there is the ability to access these resources. Now how do we access what's being published?

Mark Prater:

Yeah. Recently we made a change on the homepage of our Sovereign Grace website, which is sovereigngrace.com. We did have at the top menu there a Journal link that has been changed to Publishing and now if you click on Publishing, you'll see a dropdown menu that says Journal and Books. So if you click on the Journal, you'll see that all of the previously published Journals are there. The PDF versions are free and if you want to order them, you can order them at Amazon. We don't make any money on that. It's just a way to get it shipped to you and they're listed by the most recent ones first, is sort of the way it goes. And then a new tab that's been added that Jared's been working on is called Books. And if you click on that, there are a number of self-published books that are on that particular page and they are really just very, very helpful resources.

Let me just mention the ones that are up there. Continue in What You Have Learned; sermons by CJ Mahaney that shaped our family of churches. That was edited by Jared Mellinger. It's a gift we gave to our pastors and wives a couple of years ago at the pastor's conference. But that has I think, enduring utility for us. The book Sacred Zeal by Jeff Purswell, which is really a transcript, an edited transcript of his sacred zeal message from a couple of years ago at the pastor's conference. Jared Mellinger has a book entitled The Grace of Partnership, also an edited version of the sermon he preached at a recent pastor's conference. And then a book called Joyful Generosity that four Sovereign Grace pastors worked on. Brendan Willis, who's in Australia, Kyle Houlton, who's in Southern California, Leo Parris and myself who are in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania. That really is an accessible biblical theology of generosity and emphasizing the joy you have when you are a generous people.

And then just a recent edition of We Believe which is our Statement of Faith, but this is the editors' edition in print form. In fact, I got a copy right here you can take a look at and it's got a great cover on it. And the editors' edition adds a component to our Statement of Faith that I think enriches our statement of faith. So this is something that guys can access, they can order if they want to give it to their members. And all of those resources are self-published by Sovereign Grace and are available to you with many more self-published works in the queue right now that Jared will get up on that website very, very soon.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. I know just a couple days ago we were talking about handing out Joyful Generosity later this year when we do a stewardship series and a bunch of copies and making sure every family has a copy of that excellent little book, very accessible. What recommendations do you have for us when it comes to using these resources?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I think all of those resources can be used in various ways in our churches and even maybe with pastors who might be interested in Sovereign Grace. So I mentioned the We Believe editors' edition. You might consider giving that, ordering that and giving that to every person who goes through your new members class in your church. In fact, I would recommend what you do is what some churches are beginning to do in our family of churches is they actually put this package together and it's the We Believe editors' edition that they'll give new members along with our Journal on Shared Values and our Journal on Shaping Virtues, and that's a package they'll give every new member that's going through their new members' class. So that's a great idea. In fact, we did this at Covenant Fellowship just this past weekend for our Leaders retreat that we do annually, and we gave each of our leaders that package right there. It's just another way to continue to strengthen in them our theological convictions as well as our shared values and shaping virtues.

I think another recommendation would be if you are developing young men for ministry, there are certain resources that are must reads in my opinion. One would be CJ's sermons Continue in What You Have Learned. Those have shaped us as a family of churches and we want them to shape potential future pastors. I would also give them Sacred Zeal, those that you're developing for pastoral ministry by Jeff, because you want that to mark the life of a pastor. Now, they could listen to his sermon, but it's another thing I think to give them that book as well. If there are folks, pastors or churches outside of Sovereign Grace that are interested in Sovereign Grace, I think Jared's book on The Grace of Partnership is an excellent resource to hand them to help them understand how we understand partnership and why it's important to us as a family of churches.

You mentioned how you're using Joyful Generosity. There may be a time when you need to take up a big offering or you need to raise money for a building fund, something like that. That can be a very helpful book to give to each of your members. So those are just a few of the ways. I could go on and on about other ways you can use them, but they're there to serve you. Again, I think all the PDFs are free, so we're not trying to make money on it. And the Amazon cost, if you order them to get published editions, they just cover the cost of that. So they're there. And I hope you use them for the good of your church and to serve even new folks coming to Sovereign Grace churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Yeah, I know many churches in Sovereign Grace are experiencing growth, and if that growth is anything like what we're experiencing here, there are new folks who do not share our theological background necessarily. And so it's wonderful to have physical resources to put into people's hands to help them acclimate to our churches theologically, also to invite them into the culture of grace that we've experienced over many years. And so in Sovereign Grace, we have a culture of reading that I enjoy deeply, and it's wonderful to have these resources. Thank you, Jared, for leading us in this. And thank you to all the men who have written and made contributions to the Journal and these books, and 'looking forward to what gets published in the days ahead. So thanks, Mark. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, as you well know and many who check out this podcast know, it is RAE season and regions around the country are gathering together for their regional assembly of elders. And we don't want to assume that everybody knows what happens at the regional assembly of elders or even what it is because this podcast audience is not confined to pastors. So by way of informing those who don't know or reminding those of us who do, share with us your perspective on why regional assemblies are so important.

Mark Prater:

I think they're vital to the strength of our partnership, to strengthen our partnership and really for the sake of our mission, they're vital in terms of serving our churches and the members of our churches, those churches located within a specific geographic region. So for those who maybe are hearing about a regional assembly of elders for the first time, what is that? This strange thing called regional assembly of elders. It is one expression in our polity in Sovereign Grace of really being elder-led. So that happens on a national level here in the States where the Council of Elders gathers once a year to make decisions. It also happens at a regional level. Again, regions are defined as churches within a geographic region and we want those churches as much as possible to be closer in geographic proximity just because they can benefit from partnership throughout the year.

But the regional assembly of elders meet at least twice a year, typically twice a year, spring and fall typically. And they have a number of important things that they get done at a regional assembly of elders. First of all, there's equipping, there's teaching that occurs that equips our pastors to serve our churches and to really speaking to some of the needs pastors are feeling and leading their churches. There's just lots of time for fellowship and laughter, praying for one another, praying together. Then there is also just hearing wonderful updates of things that are happening throughout the region. And then fourthly, doing the business that a regional assembly of elders does in making decisions that they have because of the authority that we see elders are given in scripture.

So a regional assembly of elders is comprised of every ordained elder in a church in a specific geographic region and they'll make decisions about church planting, about ordinations. They'll approve the budget. A lot of good business gets done there and it sounds a little bit boring, but it's actually very essential for us to be able to work together in the planting of our churches, in developing future pastors and seeing them deployed in the ministry, and in just doing that all together in a way that we can fund all that God is giving us. So I'm so grateful for these regional assembly of elders. We've been doing them for about a decade now and I think we've learned how to do them. They will vary a bit from region to region, although they have those basic components I just mentioned. But a regional leader has the freedom to design an agenda for his regional assembly that he thinks will best serve the churches in his region. That can vary from region to region. One other thing, I'm mostly talking about the states, but we're seeing that beginning to be replicated as we develop polity outside of the United States.

So we approved Mexico as a nation last year. They are just one region. So they will gather together more in a national assembly type of setting, but will do the work, the same kind of work I mentioned for regional assembly of elders. And at some point Mexico will have two regions and they will have a regional assembly of elders meeting while having sort of a national assembly, like a council of elders that we have. So just a little bit about how they work, how they're structured, and I'm so grateful for 'em. They really have strengthened our partnership and really have helped us advance our mission of telling people about the good news of Jesus Christ.

Benjamin Kreps:

I mean even the business at an RAE is not boring because it is simply seeking to steward all that God is doing in our region. So actually those business meetings are going to be quite thrilling as we consider where we are sending money, as we discern what God is doing in and through our churches. What does it look like when you attend a regional assembly?

Mark Prater:

I'll just give you a recap of what happened last week at the Northeast Regional Assembly. From an equipping standpoint, I thought Rob Flood, our regional leader, just did a great job of mapping out the topics that he had guys teach on.

So we heard a message from Shawn Woo on navigating the therapeutic because our pastors are saying there's a therapeutic influence that's in the culture that's affecting our churches potentially. How do we lead through that? So it was a great topic. Jeremy Bell spoke on the devotion to God and the pastor's own relationship and devotion to God. And then Nathan Smith did a session on the pastor and his authority because there's a lot in the culture right now about authority and it's really misunderstood where we see in scripture that authority is actually a gift from God and it's intended to be used like God uses his authority for the good of others and for the glory of God. And so Nathan did a great job of unpacking that because it's clear pastors have authority. Scripture is clear about that. Scripture is also clear about limitations of our authority because we serve under God's authority. It's also clear about how authority should not be misused. You think of 1 Peter 5, for example, not domineering over those in your care, and then the right way, that authority is to be used in a way again that is for the good of the church and the building up of the church and just holding out a vision for that was really good.

And then Rob Flood spoke on the spiritual gifts and how do we continue to pursue those in our churches. Those are the topics that we discussed. They were great. We heard a number of updates from guys on different things happening in the region. We heard an update on guys who are prospective pastors who could be ordained at some point. And then we approved ordination for Nathan Lee, who is now an ordained elder at Redeemer Grace in Newark, Delaware. We approved the budget. So that was the business side.

And then we just had a lot of time just hanging out together, sharing meals, laughing, getting updates. It was just very warm and relational. The Northeast, like the rest of our regions. I think it's just a happy place right now. And you were there because your church is transitioning from the Lower Great Lakes region to the Northeast that's now officially done. But you were at the Northeast region last week and then this past weekend you were at the Lower Great Lakes RAE. What happened there, Ben?

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, well my heart is full this week because I spent essentially five days at regional assemblies in a row going the Northeast last weekend and leaving Sunday and getting back on Tuesday. And both regional assemblies were edifying, strengthening, encouraging, a little similar in many ways, but different as well, different regional leaders. And so it was a joy, but a bittersweet joy, to attend our last regional assembly in Ohio with the Lower Great Lakes region. It makes sense though, because when you think Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, you're not thinking the Great Lakes. And so my first regional assembly in the Northeast, I had just been ordained and we voted ourselves out to join this new region. And so I've enjoyed the past eight years there. Ken Mellinger was the regional leader for most of that time. He established that region. He built that region together. And to be in that first regional assembly with just a few guys really, and then at the last one where the region is flourishing now under Jace Hudson's leadership, his fine leadership, with just a packed room full of pastors and a guy who's going to be a church planter, and prospective pastors, what a joy it was.

And we did some very similar things and we sang together, we prayed together, we heard teaching on earnestly pursuing the gifts, similar. So I got a big dose of that. We spent time praying together for specific spiritual gifts and eating together, laughing together. CJ was there and addressed us on building a culture of joy, which is always helpful to hear from him. So yeah, my heart's full, but excited now to be in the Northeast and to enjoy that expression of partnership. And those brothers that are there, I told the guys in Lower Great Lakes region, we're not leaving because there's any lack of appreciation, admiration, respect, no; great deal of affection for those men, but eager to be gathering twice a year now in the Northeast region.

Mark Prater:

And I think your desire to be back into the Northeast is motivated by what I said earlier. We want, as much as possible, our regions to be built with geographic proximity because it just fosters partnership. So that was a motivation. I said to you before we recorded this podcast, you did a great job sharing it, about joining the Northeast regional assembly, but also saying, I have a vision for us to build a region in central Pennsylvania. And I think that's exactly right. That's how we want to build because again, as we get more churches in central Pennsylvania, let's build a region there so they can experience partnership in a very meaningful way.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, we don't just want our pastors to have this great gift of joyful partnership. We also want our people in our churches to enjoy it as well, as much as possible. Now, some regions are massively spread out by necessity, but it will be wonderful in the days ahead as more churches are planted and more are established that are closer together. So not only do we enjoy as pastors, the equipping edification of partnership, but our people can increasingly do so as well.

So praise God for our regional leaders. They are doing a fantastic job from everything I can tell, certainly the two that I interacted with over this past week and are doing a fantastic job. So thanks to all of our regional leaders. Thank you, Mark, for giving us insight into what RAEs are all about. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.