VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Graces Churches with our executive director. Mark, the WorshipGod conference that happens every two years led by Bob Kauflin concluded at the end of last week. I was there, had a wonderful time. But a question to get your thoughts on is, why do we have a WorshipGod conference every two years?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's a great question. In fact, I'll say this again, but let me echo what you just said. Bob is a gift to our family of churches. Bob Kauflin has been serving us for decades, I'll say it that way. And he has served us so well and led Sovereign Grace Music so well. He is a unique gift to our family of churches and he really does put a lot of time and effort and leadership into planning our WorshipGod conferences every two years. But the question is why WorshipGod? I think it's good to start with that because we've got to understand that this is not just a standalone conference. It's a conference that connects churches, and our churches in particular, because Sovereign Grace Music pulls off this conference every couple of years, and of course they're connected with Sovereign Grace Churches.

And so here's why we do it. First of all, it serves churches to honor and apply God's word. And what I mean by that is that our Bibles are filled with songs. God wants us to sing, and the content of the songs that we sing is important to him. You see that in scripture, and the way we sing and the way we conduct our worship is important to him in scripture as well. You see that in scripture. And so the Lord talks about that. God talks about that as he inspired the writing of the word of God. And that's really important because that's what we do every Sunday when we gather. We're essentially honoring God's word in a way that he wants from us by singing and conducting our services in a way that pleases him and that gives him great glory and it brings us real joy. So that's one reason, and I'm just giving a couple, there are several, but I wanted to highlight two by the way.

The other one is, I would just say zeal. And what I mean about that is our zeal for Christ. And again, it's one way. It's another way that we can continue to stir zeal for Christ, not only now, but in future generations in Sovereign Grace. I mean, one of the things about going to a WorshipGod conference is that you see different generations that are there. And that's really important to us as a family of churches; continuing to have zeal for Christ, not just collectively as a denomination, but each and every local church and each and every member in our local churches has zeal for Christ.

And so what I'm trying to say is that, again, this is not a standalone conference. The WorshipGod conference is very connected to our ecclesiology, very connected to who we are and what we do as local churches. And again, I thank God for Bob. I thank God for his music team that helps pull this off; David and Devon, Fabrizio, Grace and Becca. I'm sure they're tired after the conference, but filled with joy because of the conference as well. So that's why we do it.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, I love the WorshipGod Conference. That's the first Sovereign Grace event I think I ever attended in 2008, not long after we came to Living Hope. And I have loved that conference ever since. I haven't been able to go except for a few times. But each time I go, I have an incredibly edifying experience. But for those who have not gone to WorshipGod before, what exactly happens at the conference?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, Bob's very thoughtful in what he plans out and very intentional in really executing his plan, leading his plan, if you can say it that way. So there's obviously, there's rich theological teaching because if you're going to honor the word of God every Sunday and how you conduct your worship service, it needs to begin with solid theological preaching. And this year, as I understand, I wasn't there this year, was no exception in terms of the quality of the preaching, which is wonderful.

Obviously there's just passionate singing as well, and that stirs you in a couple of ways. It affects you presently, but you take that home with you. So when members and pastors of our churches and of really other churches that attend, they'll go back home and that'll strengthen their local church. But it's also important because certainly within Sovereign Grace, you realize that we're a family that loves singing to Jesus together. That my church is very similar in that way to another Sovereign Grace Church because you meet people from different churches in Sovereign Grace.

And then there's breakout sessions that really are intended to equip people, members of our churches, who serve frequently almost every Sunday. That can be sound tech people, that can be musicians, vocalists, it can be worship leaders and pastors as they think through planning a service. It's really important. And plus, on top of that, there's usually a breakout session like there was this year on songwriting. And we want to continue to write congregational songs to say it that way, songs that can be sung by local congregations that bring Christ much glory. And so that's not only important now, that's important for the future generations of Sovereign Grace, that we're equipped to continue what really scripture calls us to do. And again, keep in mind that because it serves local churches, at least in churches in Sovereign Grace, then that conference and the equipping you receive there strengthens your church. It's connected to our ecclesiology.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I had an amazing week there. It's a distinct conference certainly from our pastor's conference because of the diversity of the folks that are coming and attending WorshipGod, many of them, maybe the majority aren't even in Sovereign Grace churches, but they have benefited from Sovereign Grace Music and eagerly attend.

I know I was telling you before we started recording that some folks when they go to a conference like WorshipGod, they have this incredible spiritual high, this wonderful mountaintop experience and then feel a sense of loss just going back home to ordinary life. And I informed my church coming back from WorshipGod, that I'm unfamiliar with that feeling. What happened over the course of several days at WorshipGod, is I found myself, I could not wait to be gathering with my church on Sunday. And so far from it being this experienced divorced from local church, it actually informs an eagerness to gather with the local church.

And the theme was Union with Christ. So I commend the resources, when they are live, whenever that happens, to listen to those. But it was really a focus on how our union in Christ informs our personal lives of communion with God, but also our corporate gatherings together. And so the teaching covered a whole gamut regarding that aspect, that important, wonderful, glorious reality of our union with Christ.

And the breakout sessions, were just an amazing mix of spiritual and edification, but also practical application. And even a breakout just for sound guys, like you said, our sound guy, Darryl Wenger, who's been doing sound for 40 years at Living Hope, someone came to me and was like, Darryl was amazing. He did a breakout on sound production using all kinds of terminology that I don't understand, but there was a packed room full of guys eager for that kind of instruction as well. So it is wonderful to see just how thoughtful and thorough Bob and the team is with their planning.

Before we go though, in connection to the local church, the reality that this conference is connected to our ecclesiology, you wanted to give a shout out to a Sovereign Grace Church that helped with the conference.

Mark Prater:

I do. I thank God for this church. I've already mentioned we thank God for Bob Kauflin and his team and I mentioned them by name. They are all gifts to our family of churches. But the conference was held in Louisville, and I want to commend the members of Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. After the conference. Jon Payne, who was at the conference with his son actually, and Jared Mellinger, who was one of the main session speakers, they sent emails to the leadership team and they were just going on and on about how good the conference was. And Jared said this, Jared said, one thing I want to add is just to commend the members of Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville who were serving at the conference and just how they served really was excellent and reflected what scripture calls us to do in that regard. And of course, the Sovereign Grace Music staff was there serving and Sovereign Grace staff, some of the Sovereign Grace staff, was there serving as well.

But it was the members of the Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville who wanted to be there to serve others. And that just commends how we build our churches. We want to build churches that build servants, create servants in that way. And so thanks to CJ Mahaney, obviously, who leads that pastoral team, Bob, who's on that team, Jeff Purswell, Brian Chesemore, Steve Whitacre, Gary Ricucci, Tyson Ziegler, and Chad as well. So you men have done a great job building your church and because of that, we've been strengthened, not just by your example, but by those who attended the conference last week. We've just benefited from your service. And again, it's another way to illustrate how a conference is connected to our ecclesiology.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Not surprising, but it is wonderful to hear about a Sovereign Grace church embodying the shaping virtue of servanthood that we hold dear and that we see present throughout Sovereign Grace churches. So thanks SGC Louisville for serving us by serving at the conference.

Thank you, Mark, for your thoughts and for everyone checking out the podcast. We'll see you here possibly not next week, we'll see, but soon. Lord willing. So bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, I'm not in my normal recording location.

Mark Prater:

You're not. Ben, where are you at?

Benjamin Kreps:

I'm actually in the Pastors College Library because I needed a quiet place to record the podcast because I'm attending WorshipGod. So taking a break from in between. There's a coffee break right now, so recording over at the Pastors College and running back over to Highview Baptist for the afternoon session.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. How's it been so far?

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, great. Sadly, I wasn't able to attend the first session last night, but this morning HB Charles addressed us from Galatians 2:20 and we were all basically levitating above our seats with great joy and the singing has been fantastic. Bob's leadership is wonderful. So yeah, tons of people. I think I heard there's like 1300 people here. It's a packed house and we are being strengthened.

Mark Prater:

I think they sold out. I don't think there was room for anymore, if I remember right.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. And everybody's eager, if you went decent seats, you got to get here like 45 minutes early. I learned. So I sat in the far right corner of the room. But yeah, it's fantastic.

Mark Prater:

Thanks for being there.

Benjamin Kreps:

Not here to talk about WorshipGod, I'm here to talk about what you wanted to talk about and that is something that has been, you said before the podcast, affecting your heart. Anyone who knows you, Mark, or who knows this podcast, knows that you love Sovereign Grace. You are very grateful for the pastors of Sovereign Grace. And today is just another opportunity that you want to take to express your gratitude for leaders in Sovereign Grace churches.

Mark Prater:

I do. I actually had a different topic that I had planned for us to talk about today on the podcast and I just really believe the Spirit of God was leading me in a different direction and we're recording this on a Thursday afternoon. It's lingered with me all day and I can't shake it. So I hope this is from the Lord and it has really affected my heart, thanking God for the leaders that He has given our family of churches and in particular our regional leaders here in the States and our area leaders in different parts of the world. I just thank God for them.

And I was thinking about these two verses that Paul writes in Philippians 2:19 and 20 where he says, I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you soon so that I too may be cheered by news of you for I have no one like him who will be genuinely concerned for your welfare. And that verse, it just affected me. We, as a family of churches, we have no one like them. No one like the regional leaders here in the States and our area leaders throughout the world; no one like them who care for the welfare of our pastors and the welfare of our churches. And we need to regularly thank God for them. I'm just very moved by it today and I'm on the leadership team. We're called to lead, but we don't do that alone. We don't do that in isolation. We lead with these men, the regional leaders and the area leaders. In fact, they're very much on the front lines caring for pastoral teams, caring for churches, helping to build their regions, helping to build in nations.

And I think what got me thinking about it as I've interacted with some of the US regional leaders recently just for different various reasons, and in those I haven't interacted with, I'm aware of just some of the things they're doing and leading in. And it just stirs gratitude in my heart for them. They are caring for Elderships that may be facing challenges or caring for churches that are walking through challenging times, bringing wisdom and encouragement and biblical perspective. They're not just doing that. They're meeting with pastors and they're encouraging them, inspiring them, correcting them if that needs to be done. Just a willingness to have hard conversations because they love them. They care for the welfare of the men that they're called to serve and their churches. And then they're just inspiring leaders. They're talking about ways to plant churches in their region or to build in nations.

So, I thank God for our nine US regional leaders. I thank God for our area leaders. I was just interacting with Ed O'Mara recently at a Global Leaders retreat. And he was just walking through what's going on in Europe and what he's involved in and we don't have much of a presence in Europe. He's caring for the church in Bristol, Grace Church, but he's interacting with several pastors who lead churches who have interest in being a part of Sovereign Grace. So he is talking with them at times, he's traveling to them as well. I thank God for Bart Lipscomb, who's our area leader in Africa. He was just in Sierra Leone caring for our brothers in West Africa, Sierra Leone and Guinea and Liberia, and just teaching and faithfully pastoring 'em. I'm aware, of course, Rich is on the leadership team. I just talked with Rich on the phone a couple of weeks ago and he's just behind the scenes in ways people don't know. Very involved in helping our brothers in Mexico build their nation now and also in helping to steward what God has given us in Latin America. So I just thank God for him and Greg Dirnberger, who's our area leader in the Asia Pacific part of the world. But I just thank God for each of those men and each of our US regional leaders as well. They are gifts from the risen Christ to our family of churches. We have no one like them.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. Our polity is structured in such a way that we need men that are gifted to be able to care for multiple churches as regional leaders. And so we need that, but we only have that because God has blessed our family of churches with men such as these. I've gotten to experience the care and counsel of a number of regional leaders over the last decade; Ken Mellinger and Jace Hudson and now Rob Flood. These are excellent pastors, excellent leaders, and I join you in thanking God for them.

Mark, could you give us a suggestion or two, for those of us who are checking out the podcast and we are joining you in our gratitude and appreciation of these men who serve us sacrificially, serve us zealously and they serve us with excellence, give us a suggestion or two about how grateful pastors and grateful members of churches can communicate appreciation to these regional leaders, to their regional leader or global leaders?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's a great question because here's the reason why that's important. As you look on Sovereign Grace, one of the ways that you know that God is blessing us and with us and strengthening us and pouring out his grace upon us, is by the quality of leaders he's given us. They are gifts from the risen Christ. We have no one like them. And that is only because of God and of how God is blessing us with quality leaders like that. And so to express thanks and to express encouragement really is an acknowledgement of what God is doing in our family of churches and how he has and continues to provide, right? So it's very God glorifying in its motivation and that's one of the reasons it just really affects my heart. There've been a couple of times today, I've actually just been in tears as I think about these men and what they do in caring for churches, we have no one like them that will care for the welfare of our churches.

So for our pastors, whenever you interact with one of the men who I've just mentioned, your US regional leader, outside the states; your area leader, please take time to specifically thank them for how they care and lead and just provide counsel to you. If you're not interacting with them, email them and just let them know, you're on my heart today and I just thank you for this specific thing, or I want to encourage you where I see grace in your life. And, so that's the first thing.

I think for members of our churches who may have less opportunity, when a regional leader comes and visits a church, please take time just to greet them and just thank them for what they do. If you know them, encourage them where you see grace at work in their lives. I just think we want to build a culture of encouragement, that's one of our shaping virtues in Sovereign Grace. And may that include how we encourage our leaders because of what God has called them to do. So just a couple of quick thoughts and as you do all that, let's do it in a way that gives God all the glory because these are gifts from God to us.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes. Amen. Mark, so grateful for you as the one who's leading the leadership team and Sovereign Grace. Your gratitude for the pastors and leaders in Sovereign Grace is greatly appreciated by us. And so thank you, Mark. Thank you for checking out the podcast, everyone. Encourage your regional leader or area leader. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches to our executive director. Mark, I know a memory that I, along with many others, recall with great joy and gratitude; last year at the Council of Elders. Before the Pastors Conference, we voted to make Mexico an ecclesiastical nation. That was a sweet moment of celebration as those men, those Mexican pastors, went up on the stage and it was officially announced that they were their own ecclesiastical nation. Well, those guys, as they have been for many years, are hard at work. There's continuing significant activity in Mexico, and you want to tell us about a couple events that are coming up?

Mark Prater:

I do. I remember that vote last November at the Council of Elders meeting, a unanimous vote. An enthusiastic vote, as you said, Ben. A very sweet moment in our short history as a denomination. I would say a historic moment for us as well, because since our polity was ratified, book of church order ratified in April of 2013, we have now our second ecclesiastical nation, obviously here in the States and now Mexico. And that vote reflected the labors of Carlos Contreras, who's been leading in Mexico well over 30 years, and he has been a faithful pastor and faithful leader in building that nation, and he's not done it by himself. Since that vote in November, they formed really a leadership group there in Mexico that is Carlos Contreras, Hellman Avila, who's in El Paso, Jaime Chow is in El Paso, Abelardo Munoz, who is in Juarez, Cuautemoc, who is in Juarez, the administrator there and helping administratively, and then Manolo Quintal, who's down in Silao. So that's the men who help lead.

And these are rough numbers, but as I recall in my old man memory, we have eight partner churches in Mexico and then eight to ten more that are pursuing adoption. Those men, I think about 30 men, Rich told me, are in the ordination process in Mexico right now. So to accommodate just the God-given expansion in Mexico, they're forming two regions, one, more in the south, one in the north. And it's just wonderful to see the labors of faithful pastors and leaders like Carlos over 30 plus years, maybe close to 40 now, bearing a lot of good fruit. And because of that, they've had to just find ways to serve pastors and wives. And for several years now, they've had a conference called the Fieles Conference, and that's coming up in August. I want to speak about that in just a moment and explain why that's important.

I mention the Fieles conference, that will be August 7th through 9 at Iglesia Gracia Soberana in Juarez, Mexico, the church where Carlos leads, becuause at that church right before that conference starts, they are going to have a National Assembly of Elders meeting, which is glorious to think about. That is much like the Council of Elders meeting we had last November and have had for what, over a decade now. So to see those men draw together and make decisions regarding governance decisions regarding polity is just very, very sweet. They're functioning as an ecclesiastical nation, and that's important because it helps us to build strong churches and healthy churches, but it helps us to plant churches as well.

So I wanted to mention the National Assembly of Elders meeting because if you listen to this podcast or you're a reader of this podcast, please pray for that. Please pray for Carlos as he leads to that National Assembly of Elders meeting that'll happen right before the Fieles Conference on August 7th in Juarez, Mexico.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. I've had the honor of spending time with some of those guys down in Mexico and in Mexico a little bit, and it is always humbling to interact with these pastors. I mean, their example is compelling. These are gifted and godly men. Just hearing Carlos talk about how that church began as a small group of believers that met in a park leading up to where things have grown, to God be the glory, and we are certainly grateful for the grace in Carlos's life. So the Fieles Conference is coming up. You've talked about it before, but people checking on the podcast, don't necessarily know what it is and actually how strategic this conference really is in Mexico.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, this is one of the most strategic conferences we do in Sovereign Grace every year. Of course, we have our pastors and wives conference in November here in the States, but this conference is just as strategic, especially outside of the states. I mean this conference, which we'll be in Juarez, as you mentioned, it serves primarily pastors and wives in Mexico. But there are several pastors and wives that travel from different Latin American nations to attend this conference because it is a conference that is not only gospel centered, it is a conference where Carlos's leadership is very intentional to equip and care for and invest into pastors and their wives so that they leave not only equipped for what they've been called to do, they leave very encouraged and cared for, and the conference because of that, the conference has just grown. Last year they sold out.

My guess is they'll sell out again this year in terms of just not having any more space. Last year the theme was something like the pastor and his family, and the fruit that came back, the feedback from that, was just excellent. This year, the conference theme is a pastor's call to live a life of piety or to live a life of godliness, which obviously scripture calls all believers to, but the pastoral epistles call pastors to, because we lead by example in how we live godly lives and lead godly families. And so I think it's a very timely topic that will serve pastors and wives attending this conference from Mexico and Latin America.

I want to give you a little bit of a rundown of who's speaking there and topics so that you could pray for this conference. Jeff Purswell is speaking, Mike Bullmore, a wonderful friend of Sovereign Grace, will be speaking and Juan Sanchez, who leads a Baptist church here in the States in Texas, also a wonderful friend of Sovereign Grace. Carlos Contreras is doing a main session, and Carlos asked me to do a main session, so I was humbled by that and grateful to do it.

So, Jeff is going to open the conference just talking about living a life worthy of the gospel. In Carlos's leadership and planning, he wants to begin there. He wants to begin with the gospel of Jesus Christ and living a life worthy of that. Mike Bullmore is going to speak on a pastor's character, which I can't wait to hear that message. Carlos is going to speak on abiding in Christ from John 15. Juan Sanchez is going to speak on the topic of the spirit in the mortification of sin. A wonderful topic, and I'm so glad there's an element of the spirit's work built into the conference. Carlos is then going to speak on persevering in holiness, so it's not just a one-time event; we all, for the rest of our lives, are being sanctified. And by the grace of God, we are growing in Christ's likeness, in holiness.

He's asked me to do a sermon on the praying pastor, and if you study Paul's prayers, they're recorded in his epistles, one of the things he consistently prays for is for the godliness of his people. And so that's one of the ways that we care for them. And then Jeff's going to end with a pastor's zeal because it would not be a good example for a pastor to have zeal and no godliness, but it doesn't serve the church if a pastor has godliness and no zeal. I think those two are not separated. They actually go together. The more you grow in godliness, the more you grow in zeal for God. So great topic. And then Juan Sanchez is doing a breakout session on pursuing a godly home, which will help pastors and wives. So that's who's speaking.

That's a bit of the lineup, and I wanted to mention the specifics to you and the dates to you; August 7th through 9th in Juarez so that you could please pray for this conference, pray for Carlos as he leads this conference, and pray for the speakers, and then especially pray for all the pastors and wives gathering there. My heart, as I pray for the conference, is I can't wait to meet them and interact with them because these are pastors and wives who are serving faithfully, many of them in Sovereign Grace churches. And I desire, my prayer is that God would meet with them, speak to them, encourage them, and build them up in Christ. But we need God's help to do that. So please pray.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Yes, thank you. Thank you for the update. In hanging out with Carlos a couple years ago, at Gracia Soberana, he just spent unhurried time talking about this conference and described the stirring way in which the whole church is involved. The whole of Gracia Soberana; feeding people, putting people up, giving them places to stay, cleaning, supporting. I mean, this is a church that is zealous to see the gospel deposited in pastors throughout Mexico. And they're going to guys that are isolated out in the mountains who don't have partnership, who maybe are a little off theologically, to draw them in and begin teaching, instructing, building fellowship and friendship. This is a very important conference in Mexico. So grateful for Carlos and all that serve alongside him in this. So let's be praying.

Thanks, Mark, for the update. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, before we started recording the podcast, you were talking about how at the recent leadership team retreat you had a discussion about church planting and why we plant churches. We definitely don't plant churches to merely spread the Sovereign Grace Church brand or anything like that. We actually have biblical convictions about church planting. You guys were talking about that. Talk to us about your discussion.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it was a wonderful discussion that actually Jon Payne led us through, did a great job of leading us through the discussion that he had put together, just a document, really a conversation piece, about our church planting assumptions in Sovereign Grace. And the reason he did that is because he's had this conversation with the Church Planting Group. They are not this independent isolated committee or group in our family of churches. They're actually an extension of the leadership team. So we want to make sure that we're all on the same page, the leadership team and Church Planting Group when it comes to how we think about church planting and why we plant churches in Sovereign Grace. And so I know Mike Seaver has seen this. Joel Shorey, our new director of church planting has seen this. And then Jon brought this draft working document that I'm just going to mention here in just a moment. He gave 'em some input and they'll talk about it again at the Church Planting Group retreat in August. But I thought they were really, really helpful.

I will say before I give these 12 assumptions, that we're thinking of the United States in using these; there are certainly assumptions that apply in other nations, but not all of them will, and would encourage guys that are planting churches outside of the United States, and Dave Taylor will help guys think this, about how can they take these assumptions and have them for their own nation. So just some introductory comments before I walk you through these 12 assumptions that we discussed.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. Glad that you guys, you're not just kicking around thoughts, you're actually wisely highlighting things that are helpful to the pastors and members of Sovereign Grace churches. When we think about church planting and people talk about church planting all the time, so of course there are assumptions connected with that conversation. So what are some assumptions about church planting that you would like us to be aware of?

Mark Prater:

Right? As I mentioned we have in the working document anyway, 12 assumptions. Those might change. We might reduce that number, but I thought they're all good. So it was worth dedicating a podcast to it. Assumption number 1: we want to plant churches, and here's the reason why. We as a family of churches, we desire to reflect the New Testament model of advancing the gospel by sacrificing for the mission and sending people to plant new churches to reach people that haven't heard Christ or reach an area that may not have a solid gospel preaching church. So that's a biblical conviction. That's a New Testament model that we are wanting to reflect in Sovereign Grace.

Assumption number 2: we want to plant for endurance. So we want to plant churches that will be faithful to God's word, faithful to our theological convictions and endure over time. So what that means is we're not as interested in numbers and we're not going to have these goals for numbers, but what we're interested in is planting solid churches that will be faithful and endure over time.

Assumption number 3: we plant with Sovereign Grace pastors. And what that means is we plant with men who are ordained in Sovereign Grace, who share our theological convictions, our seven shared values and our seven shaping virtues and where possible they also have some degree of pastoral experience. Now that may change based on the planter and how much experience he either has or needs, but we're just learning that guys who've got some degree of pastoral experience plant more solid churches because they've learned about pastoral ministry and that helps them plant well. Basically, Eric Turbedsky, when he was our director of church planting just unashamedly said appropriately, we plant Sovereign Grace churches a Sovereign Grace way. And that's kind of a little bit of what he was getting at in that phrase, right?

Assumption number 4: we value team ministry. That's not new to the pastors and even members of our churches that are listening to this, but where possible we'd love to send a plurality of elders more than just a solo elder. Now that's not always possible, but where we can, we want to do that. Or if we can't send a man already ordained, we'd love to send somebody who certainly is called and potentially on that ordination track because it will strengthen the church plant because pastoral teams are a reflection of the church. And so that'll be a stronger church.

Assumption number 5: we plant with denominational financial support. So in other words, we together as a family of churches, we are committed to replicating this New Testament model of planting churches so much. So we want to give our financial resources; those coming from our national resources, Sovereign Grace Central, those coming from our region. It's just one way to invest into the gospel and that allows a man to really devote his time to planting the church and not needing to find ways to earn other income.

Assumption number 6, which is really the next logical one: we plant with vocational pastors. Now this is one that may not work outside the United States because of the economy in certain nations, guys may need to be bi-vocational. But here in the states, our assumption is we want to plant with vocational pastors again because they can focus on the work of planting and not have to worry about how they're going to support their families.

Assumption number 7: we prioritize preaching, which is again not new in Sovereign Grace. CJ has led us down that road so well. You lead your church from the pulpit and you build your church on God's word Sunday after Sunday in solid expository preaching. And that's going to build churches that endure and that's going to build strong gospel centered churches.

Assumption number 8: we value denominational preparation and ongoing care. It's why we have a Church Planting Group. Those guys exist to help you, a planter, prepare, assess, and prepare. It's one of the roles that our regional leaders play in providing care for the planters. So our denominational structures that we have in place are in part there to foster and strengthen our church planting efforts.

Assumption number 9: we prioritize cooperative efforts. So we just believe that we're going to be able to do more together as a family of churches. And so the sharing of resources and the sharing of prayer, meaning we pray for one another as we plant churches is really important. And when I talk about sharing resources, I'm not just talking about financial resources, I'm talking about people. First of all, people that may be in one church that can join another church's church planting team because they have a desire to be a part of a church plant or the sharing of pastors. You may have a location to plant but not a pastor. And so a church in Sovereign Grace sacrificially gives that pastor to that other church so he can plant a church and the gospel can be advanced. Those are huge sacrifices, but they reflect the resources that we share.

Assumption number 10 is we prioritize pastoral ministry. Planters are pastors. That's something that I think Eric said. It's something that Jon has emphasized. Pastors are planters we want to plant with. Men are shepherds who will shepherd the flock of God that they begin to gather as the church plant forms.

Assumption number 11, we prioritize godly character. In other words, we want to send planters who are proven in godly character, tested in godly character and we can affirm their godly character. I think that's one of the roles of our, not only of our local churches, but our regional church planting committees, as well.

And then assumption number 12, we take faith-filled risks on the right things. So I want to continue to call us to take faith-filled risks, but we've got to take risks on the right things. I won't spend a lot of time on that because I dedicated a podcast to that topic just a few weeks ago. So if you haven't heard that, listen to it. But for example, we don't want to take risks on godly character, but we do want to take risks in sending our best to further the mission of the gospel as we plant churches.

So those are the assumptions, at least right now, those may change, but I thought it'd be a good time just to introduce them to our pastors and members of our churches and as we work on this, pray that God gives us wisdom, and pray that God would give us resources, men called to plant, people wanting to be on church plant teams, and financial resources to plant churches.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's very good. And I was struck again by a couple of those assumptions that are helpful to perhaps a church that wants to be involved in church planting but doesn't see the way forward but can help financially, help with people, help with resources. The sharing together, this cooperation in Sovereign Grace, is a central piece to how we plant. And so grateful for the Church Planting Group. I know when we planted last year, Redeeming Grace Church in Mechanicsburg, they served us so well. So helpful. So I've said this before, but if anyone's just thinking, I don't even know what it looks like to get involved in planting or the way forward, the Church Planting Group will help you. They will lead you through the whole process and we were helped so much by them.

So thank you, Mark, and the leadership team, and the way that you interact with the Church Planting Group and such thoughtful ways to serve us and may God give us the privilege of planting many more churches in the days ahead. So thank you, Mark, for the update. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, before we started recording the podcast, you were talking about how you've been reflecting recently on Luke chapter nine, and it has been stirring your heart and your mind to think about the area of evangelism and you wanted to talk to us about evangelism. So go ahead and do that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, thank you, Ben. I have been studying Luke nine and the first 17 verses in particular, but the chapter starts in verse one with Jesus giving his power and authority to the apostles, to the 12. And then it says in verse six, he sends them to preach the gospel and to heal. And so that's the first missionary journey that's recorded there in the gospel of Luke where the 12 are sent. And that's exactly what they do. They heal, they pray for healing and they share the gospel. And so the kingdom of God has come in the person of Christ and the good news of the gospel is going forward. And that is not just an historic event, that's an event for us as well because we have Christ's power. In fact, he said as much right before his ascension in Acts 1:8 where he says, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth.

And of course he's pointing to Pentecost when the spirit falls or fills those in the upper room. And what happens right away is Peter goes out and preaches the gospel and it's recorded that 3000 people came to Christ on that day, a wonderful demonstration of the power of God through the work of the Spirit in our lives. And that's what we have. We have the power of the Spirit. We can pray for people to be healed and we can share the gospel as led by and empowered by the Holy Spirit. And so it's just a good reminder for all of us that we are on a mission, always on a mission and to kind of keep our eyes open for opportunities and pray for opportunities to reach the lost and share the gospel with those who don't know Christ.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. It would be a tragedy for those of us who have come to trust and follow Christ and now having been filled with the power of the Holy Spirit for this task to neglect this wonderful privilege of sharing the gospel. And in fact, there are many people doing just that in Sovereign Grace. And you have a couple of stories about some Sovereign Grace folks who are engaged in outreach and evangelism and want to encourage us to follow their example.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. The first story is a text I got in the last week from Philip Estrada. Philip planted and is the senior pastor of Mission City Fellowship in San Antonio, Texas. And Philip does a great job of reaching out to the lost with the gospel. And he actually sent me a picture of a wedding he was doing in San Antonio, I think last weekend. And he said it was 107 degrees, but I made it through an outdoor wedding that was really hot. But the reason, one of the reasons he sent me the picture is because he was saying that man there in the black jacket, he has been coming to our church, we've been reaching out to him, he's a Muslim, and we've been having conversations about Jesus. And he said, now he just had a recent conversation with him where he's saying, I'm struggling with Jesus, coming to Jesus, because of my family. He said, you have to understand people like me, we get killed for trusting in Christ. And so Philip is continuing to just love this man and share the gospel with this man. But it's a wonderful illustration, not only of why we plant churches, we plant churches to reach Muslims like that man, but it's a wonderful illustration of Philip, one of our pastors, just continuing to reach out with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The other story is from my church, Covenant Fellowship Church. It's about Sheila George who is in her mid seventies, and she is on fire for Christ. She and her husband Tom are just wonderful believers, been in the church for a number of years, but she and Tom open their home up to unbelievers regularly. They excel at hospitality and they had a person, new neighbor, move in next door a couple of summers ago, and her name is Helen.

And they invited her over for dinner and for lunch and for tea, and they got to know her. And then just last Christmas, her son came running over. Helen's son came running over to Sheila's house and said, my mom was up in the attic and she fell through the ceiling. And she's on the floor and she's injured. Can you come help? And so of course they called an ambulance, but Sheila went there, held Helen and prayed for her. Now, Helen's not a Christian, and Helen said to her after she prayed, I felt comforted and I felt peace after you prayed for me. And so they continued their conversation about the Lord. Sheila invited Helen to our Bridge course and through our Bridge course, Helen was born again and she is now a faithful Christian because of a mid 70-year-old woman's heart for Christ and her heart for reaching the lost with the gospel. It's just a wonderful illustration.

We all have these opportunities to invite people into our homes and get to know them and befriend them and share Jesus with them. So just a couple of stories to encourage us and maybe deepen our faith for all of us, members and pastors of Sovereign Grace churches to do the same.

Benjamin Kreps:

Wonderful, thanks for sharing those stories. Grateful for Philip's example. To the pastors who are checking out the podcast, it takes intentionality and thoughtfulness. So often pastors can be consumed with the many responsibilities within the church. And so Philip reminds us, his example reminds us, as pastors, to think how we can be engaged in reaching the lost. And I just love Sheila's example because we can all invite our neighbors over. That is a low hanging fruit, and through that simple act of hospitality and faithful sharing of Christ, people are going to come to know Jesus. So thanks for sharing those stories and encouraging us in this important area of evangelism and outreach. And thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, before we started recording, you were informing me that we have a new Pastors College roster for the fall, graduation for the last class happened in June this month, but we have a whole new class that's coming in in just a few months. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. Last week I got the new Pastors College roster of the students that are in the process of transitioning, moving to Louisville over the next couple of months to start classes near the end of August. And it's just exciting to get this roster every year and to see their faces and their names and the churches they're being sent from and most likely will return to. It will be a roster I use to pray for them as well. So I wanted to just tell our Pastors about it. We have nine students in this next class, nine students that represent eight different Sovereign Grace churches from two different nations. Those two different nations are the United States and Australia.

And let me just tell you the churches that are being represented, where the students are come from; Cornerstone Church of Knoxville in Knoxville, Tennessee is sending a student, Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville in Louisville is sending a student, which they've faithfully done for many years. The Cross of Grace Church in El Paso, Texas is sending a student, Sovereign Grace Church in Midland, Texas is sending a student, which is very, very exciting. Living Hope Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, Yeah, not you guys, but the Living Hope in Fayetteville is sending a student. Covenant Fellowship Church where I am and Jared is, in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania, we're actually sending two students this year, which we're excited about.

And then two students from Australia, one from Sovereign Grace Church of Sydney, which is in Wahroonga, and then Sovereign Grace Church of Paramatta. So it's really, really exciting to see the names and really to think about two men and their families, both those guys are married and have kids moving from Australia to come to the Pastors College I think is just a wonderful example to all of us. So I'm excited about this class because like recent classes, these men represent the future of Sovereign Grace and it's one of the reasons I'll be praying for them.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. Yes, I encourage everyone checking out the podcast to pray for those men. I guess we'll get some names and faces here in an update at some point before PC, around PC. And so talking about our future, on the last podcast you talked about how you and the leadership team spent a week discussing what Sovereign Grace might look like 10 years from now and how you guys can help us stay faithful over the next decade as there's a transfer to the next generation. The Pastors College plays an important role in what our future will look like in 10 years. Talk to us about why the PC is important to our future.

Mark Prater:

The Pastors College, in my opinion, is vital. It's crucial to our future in Sovereign Grace in a couple of different ways. First of all, to help us stay committed to our theological convictions as expressed so well in our statement of faith. And the second way is they train future Pastors. So let me speak about the first one. First of all, just remaining committed to our theological convictions. I mentioned this in the last podcast. We had a discussion at the leadership team retreat about how do we stay committed to our theological convictions as a denomination, especially as we expand globally. And mentioned that if you just look at denominations historically as they expand, there can be a tendency for some where you see factions or wings within the denomination form a conservative wing and a progressive wing. And is there any way we can lead in such a way that doesn't happen in Sovereign Grace?

And we talked about a number of ways, but one of them is theological training. And we've got to make sure that our Pastors College remains committed to our theological convictions. I don't have a lot of concern there, but we as a leadership team have that responsibility. And so the leadership team has to stay connected to the PC in that regard because in other denominations you see a denominational leadership sort of disconnected from seminaries and they can begin to drift. And then the second thing that you see is just a denominational leadership that drifts itself. So we've got to stay committed to our theological convictions as men on the leadership team. So with that in view, we need to send men to our Pastors College who are trained not only in our theology and what we believe, but also in our values that we share and the virtues that shape our churches. So that's the first reason why it's very, very important.

And then secondly, it's important for our future. I mentioned this before. Over the next 10 years, we will experience I think the largest leadership transition at a local, regional, national, and global level that we've experienced so far in 40 years because we have our first founding generation of pastors that are getting older and will be transitioning primary leadership to the second and third generation. And so this is a way for us to have men that can step into those roles not only in the next couple of generations, but hopefully, Lord willing, generations in the future. So the Pastors College is vital, which is why I spent time at the leadership team retreat, a whole session, exhorting the guys on the leadership team to recruit for the Pastors College. Recruiting for the Pastors College is not just Jeff Purswell's responsibility, it's our responsibility as a team, as a leadership team, collectively and individually. And I really want to exhort our pastors. It is our shared responsibility for our future that we would all take responsibility to recruit capable, gifted young men who have character for our Pastors College.

Benjamin Kreps:

Church history is just littered with evidence that so often liberal drift in a denomination is because it's downstream from seminaries and theological centers of education that were there years before it was discerned in the denomination. We see that happening right now. So couldn't agree more about that. Even if class sizes stay around 9 or 10, it's encouraging to think, and we want larger classes, but even if that was a trajectory in 10 years, we've got like a hundred more pastors trained by the PC and that will make a discernible difference in what our future looks like. So seminaries are good and helpful. We thank God for seminaries, but the Pastors College makes a unique contribution that is different than the seminary experience. Talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, as you just said, Ben, men do benefit from seminary theological education. There are things that our Pastors College does that a seminary can't do. It's designed that way. It's always been that way. It's the way it was founded when CJ started a Pastors College over 20 years ago, 25 years ago maybe now. And that hasn't changed. And so the person who I think articulates that difference between the PC and the seminary experience, the person who articulates that difference best is Jeff Purswell, the Dean of our Pastors College. And so you and I, we recorded a podcast with Jeff on January 22nd of this year, January 22nd, 2024. And I would encourage all Sovereign Grace Pastors to listen to that. Again, it's available on the website and just be equipped in knowing how to talk to young men who are thinking about going to seminary, which isn't wrong, but how the Pastors College uniquely prepares them for pastoral ministry and leadership in Sovereign Grace. And Jeff articulates that very well. I would say take notes as you listen and that will help you recruit for the Pastors College.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes, it's very good. Please go check that out if you haven't or maybe revisit it. Also, if you're on social media, you can follow the Pastors College on Twitter and Instagram and there's been a lot of content from Jeff about the Pastors College about philosophy of what they're doing there and among other things. So check that out as well. So before we end, there are certainly guys watching or listening to this podcast, reading this podcast who are thinking, well, I'd love to send a guy to Pastors College, but there's a number of challenges. What would you say to guys who feel the challenges, very real challenges that come with sacrifice and the sending of men to PC?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, there are challenges and there are sacrifices. What I've seen over the years, and all guys in Sovereign Grace have seen this. You meet those challenges and sacrifices on the front end. You count the cost and then you go, and then on the other side of graduation, you're like, oh, that didn't feel like a sacrifice at all. It wasn't a challenge at all. In fact, we would do it all over again because how we benefited, how we grew in Christ, how our marriage grew, how we received theological education, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I think the challenges and obstacles feel very big on the front end, and if you can have faith to just address those on the other side of PC graduation, they don't feel like sacrifices at all.

So there's the common one of financial need, how do you pay for tuition and books to attend, and living expenses while in Louisville at the Pastors College? I think there's a lot of ways to raise money for PC students today. And so I think that's an easy one to address, but it's a challenge. There's the disruption of life of moving. If you're married and you have kids, moving a family to Louisville for 10 months, that can seem a bit overwhelming, but I would talk to guys about how much their family will benefit, that it's worth the disruption. And tell stories of guys that you either have sent or know who've benefited from the PC in a number of different ways.

There's also the obstacle of guys maybe having a very good job. They leave it, there's no guarantee they can go back. And so there's the question of can we bring this guy back on our pastoral team? Maybe not. He's going to need to work possibly as a bi-vocational elder. That's a real challenge. And I think that one is another sort of faith issue that you can trust God, that he will provide either the job you did leave or he will provide another one suited to provide for your family and at the same time participate in ministry. So those are our common obstacles we talked about this at our leadership team retreat.

One of the things I was saying to the guys in our leadership team is we've got to be an example. And you see that in this list of students that are coming this year, Jeff Purswell is in Louisville. Louisville has consistently sent PC students. And so they're a great example. We see the example of Covenant Fellowship where Jared and I are at, and we're sending two this year. We've got another guy or two we're thinking about in the future at Covenant Fellowship. We sent students in the past. Obviously there is Tommy Hill who's in Knoxville at Cornerstone Church now. Tommy is not an elder or a pastor, but those elders, that pastoral team has consistently sent guys to the Pastors College.

There's Dave Taylor's example and Riley Springs example of a huge sacrifice to travel around the world. The other part, the other side of the world to come to the Pastors College. Rich, who's at Center Church in Gilbert, he sent a PC student last year. Jon Payne, who's in Austin at Redemption Hill Church has a student he plans to send, not this fall, but the following fall. So we're trying to lead by example as well. And I just really want to highlight this important point. You may not have a PC student or prospective PC student now. You may not be able to send one in a couple of years, but do talk with your team and wrestle with the question, who do we have that maybe we could send three years from now or five years from now? Because as you said, Ben, collectively over a 10 year period, we've got like a hundred more Pastors, which we're going to need 10 years now. So be thinking long term and not just short term when recruiting for the PC.

Benjamin Kreps:

Well, having attended the PC myself, having sent Kevin Busch to the Pastors College with all those experiences, I'm eager to send more guys. We have a couple guys that we're exploring right now for potentially next year. And so I couldn't amen your encouragement anymore. So thank you, Mark, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, on a previous podcast, you talked to us about a leadership team retreat that was coming up. You were at that retreat as we're recording this last week. And because you guys are not only a team that thinks reactively about what's going on in Sovereign Grace, but you want to think proactively and get out ahead of things. You were having a discussion about what Sovereign Grace Churches might look like in 10 years and you wanted to talk to us about that.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I put this on the agenda because I really want us to think through this issue. Let me just give you some reasons why I put this on the agenda. And by the way, we had great discussion, which I'll reference in just a moment. In the next 10 years, the next generation of pastors and leaders in Sovereign Grace will be leading our local churches, will be leading regionally, will be leading nationally and globally. That's just due to the ages of the men that are in their sixties and fifties. 10 years from now, they'll be transitioning leadership. In 10 years we will have most of many of our local churches led by the next generation of pastors, which is encouraging. In 10 years, I'm not going to be the executive director, maybe not on the leadership team.

Most likely in 10 years, we will potentially increase the number of churches in Sovereign Grace from the 91 partner churches we have now to 280 partner churches approximately by the year 2034. So that looks a little bit different. In 10 years, we could have more than two ecclesiastical nations. Right now we have the United States and Mexico, potentially an ecclesiastical nation, the Philippines, in East Africa, maybe Ethiopia for example, in Latin America, Costa Rica or Columbia could all be ecclesiastical nations 10 years from now. Because of that, we might have additional clarity on our global ecclesiastical structure, meaning we might have a council of nations that would be sort of like the council of elders, but on a global level. We might have a global leadership team with different leaderships in different nations. And those are just some of the ways that Sovereign Grace might look a little bit different 10 years from now, without being presumptuous, of course. And all dependent upon the grace of God.

And I mentioned all this to the leadership team because I think we have this both wonderful and strategic responsibility right now. It's actually twin responsibilities. So the first one is that we have this obligation to prepare our family of churches for the transition that will occur over the next 10 years. And then the second responsibility is that we have to lead in a way right now that Sovereign Grace is what we would hope for after that transition occurs 10 years from now. So that's why I put this topic on the agenda so that we could plan and strategize and lead well now in a way that impacts the future of Sovereign Grace 10 years from now. And as everyone knows, listening or reading this podcast, 10 years goes by pretty quick. So we've got to get to work as a leadership team.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's excellent. It is thrilling to think about what Sovereign Grace might look like globally in the years ahead, just even thinking about potentially a globally diverse leadership team overseeing things and helping not just in North America but across the globe. And so it sounds like it was a wonderful conversation and an important one to have as well. So Mark, what do you hope Sovereign Grace churches looks like in 10 years?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, I'll give you some of my thoughts and also some of the thoughts from guys on the leadership team that shared during the retreat. I mean, one of the ways I hope Sovereign Grace looks like 10 years from now, I wrote it this way, churches that are led by second and third generation pastors who in the presence of cultural pressures or possibly even persecution, are courageously committed to expository preaching, to being biblically faithful, to being gospel centered, and building with our virtues and values in a way that we remain devoted to the mission that Christ has given us to reach all nations with the good news of Jesus Christ. That's sort of a summary. May we be that in 10 years from now.

Jeff Purswell mentioned that our entire body of elders 10 years from now would be standing firm on our statement of faith and our theological convictions. Jeff also said this, that the continued outworking of our ecclesiology, such that our local practices are increasingly consistent across partnership, pastorally and theologically. In other words, we're wanting to see some degree of methodological consistency while factoring in cultural differences that are going to be obvious in different parts of the world. So we shouldn't have this big variance theologically not only in conviction but in practice as we go from generation to generation in Sovereign Grace. I just thought that was really well said.

Jon Payne mentioned, here's what I hope we look like in 10 years, that we stay true to our core, which he defined as one theological consistency that isn't dependent on Jeff because we need other guys that will take Jeff's place. Second, zeal; that we would continue to have a zeal in our passion for God and zeal for our passion for God's people, a pastoral heart that we want pastors to have. And three, strategic leadership positioning; that we have the right strategic leaders in the right positions throughout the world. And Dave Taylor just mentioned the hope that we are doing a good job of reaching the unreached 10 years from now. So those are just some of the comments that the guys made.

The other thing that we dropped into, just because you can see this in church history, as denominations expand, as they grow, that there can be this vulnerability for factions to actually be created within the denomination, we might call them progressive and conservative wings of the denomination. So how do we lead now in such a way that those don't form in Sovereign Grace? And we've only got a few ideas there. That is a conversation we need to continue as a leadership team.

Jeff had, I thought, a really good observation where he said, what you see is either denominational leadership that is disconnected from seminaries and or denominational leadership that goes astray theologically. That's what you begin to see. And the reason why denominational leadership needs to stay connected to seminaries is seminaries are training future pastors in a lot of denominations. And if they go astray, then the denomination can fracture that way. And so we've got to just remain true to our pastors college as it currently exists so that it doesn't drift in any way, and that requires denominational leadership and we need the right guys on the leadership team so that we don't go astray theologically. So I just thought that was a wonderful observation on his part. Anyway, so just to kind of pull that out, so we've got some ideas on how to lead in a way that we continue to remain faithful to our theological convictions and statement of faith even if God allows for us to expand globally.

One other thing in that conversation that I just briefly touched on and gave to the leadership team is from a chapter in D.A. Carson's book. This is the title of the book, The Gospel and the Modern World, A Theological Vision for the Church. If you don't have that book and you're a pastor, get that book. There's some wonderful chapters in that. The one I'm referencing is a chapter entitled Subtle Ways to Abandon the Authority of Scripture. And what Carson does is he has 10 different ways that we can abandon the authority of scripture and we can basically drift theologically, and as Carson points out, we're not surprised at this observation that theological drift happens subtly. And so I would encourage you to read the whole chapter.

I'm just going to mention a few of those 10 points. Number one, he says, an appeal to selective evidence. Some theological drifts are obvious, others are more subtle. This is what Carson says, the simple refusal to talk about disputed matters in order to sidestep controversy in the local church for the sake of peace, we offer antodine treatments of hot topics like homosexual marriage or gender issues in the forlorn hope that some of these topics will eventually go away. The best antidote is systematic expository preaching for such preaching forces us to deal with texts and those issues as they come up. I just thought that was so well said. Let us be faithful to expository preaching and faithful to the texts and not afraid. Have the courage to address hot topics, as he said, that will keep us from drifting theologically.

Number six, the sixth one he listed: too little reading. So guys, we got to read; pastors and members of our churches got to read, and he says this, especially the reading of older commentaries and theological works. It was interesting he said that. Here's number seven: the failure to be bound by the formal principle and the material principle; the formal principle that constrains us in the authority of scripture, the material principle that constrains us in the substance of the scripture, the gospel itself. And we need both. I just thought, oh, that is so well said. So there's the few points from Carson's 10 points of how you can drift theologically that I shared with the leadership team. And we talked through those a little bit, a great chapter for pastors to read and to be reminded of how we can drift theologically so that we remain committed to our statement of faith, not only now, but 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and 30 years from now, should the Lord allow us to exist for that long.

Benjamin Kreps:

Amen. I'm so grateful for you men and the wisdom and insight that you're communicating to us that you guys experienced in your discussion at your retreat. Thankful for your guys' sacrifice of regularly leaving home to gather, to serve Sovereign Grace. There was a guy at our recent guest reception essentially, who was visiting from a denomination that has drifted completely off of God's will for the church. And he asked me the question honestly. He said, how do you know that won't happen to Sovereign Grace? And I said, that's a good question. We do not want to be self-righteous or prideful in thinking that it couldn't happen to us. And so, how grateful I am to hear, and I'm sure everyone checking on this podcast, to hear how you guys are going to be helping us to stand firm in the days ahead. So thanks, Mark. Thanks for the update. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here, Lord willing next week. Bye for now.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace Churches with our executive director. Mark, your knee is on the mend and you are on the move once again. And as you talked about on the last podcast, you are at the Global Leaders Retreat, which has been going really well as we were talking before we started recording. What's that been like? What's going on?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it's still happening right now. I just stepped away while Jeff Purswell is leading the session which, because it's Jeff, it's very hard to leave, but wanted to record a podcast.

The Global Leaders Fellowship Retreat is going really, really well. You plan, you prepare and you pray. But God has been so kind to answer our prayers yesterday. It was just a day where we heard updates from the men that are serving in different nations. So the nations we heard updates, obviously some of 'em were Italy, Ethiopia, Australia, Pakistan, Nepal are just some of the nations that we heard updates on, Mexico and Latin America. And I laid down last night and went to sleep and put my head on the pillow. And I was just thanking God for our day yesterday because it was humbling, it was challenging, it was inspiring and it was instructive on all those levels in each country.

It's humbling to hear what some of these men are facing, some of them, really severe persecution as they advance the gospel of Jesus Christ in their nation; to hear how they're committed to the word of God and advancing the gospel despite that persecution was faith inspiring. To hear some of the guys talk about the future that they see in their nation was also inspiring.

And then it was just very instructive. We as a leadership team, we just took notes all day because we're just learning from them and hopefully we plan to debrief after this retreat and just say, okay, what do we learn from this and how can we be serving these pastors who are representing Sovereign Grace in different nations? So it was such a good day. I don't have time to drop into stories, but they are faith building and they're inspiring all at the same time. So we get to serve with a group of men throughout the world that is truly a privilege to serve with in the cause of Christ in advancing his gospel.

Benjamin Kreps:

Excellent. I just love the dynamic of give and take. I mean you guys are there, the leadership team is investing in the global leaders, but these men are also equipping the leadership team through their example, a compelling example. I remember being at a gathering a few years ago before the pastor's conference of a bunch of guys from around the globe giving updates. And I just remember being deeply humbled as they talked about the challenges they face and their faithfulness in the face of hostility. And I remember it got to me and Dave Taylor was asking, how can we pray for you? And so it got to me and I was sort of like, we have a VBS that's coming up, so I know exactly how you feel, the humbling effect of being in the presence of faithful men like these leaders. But this isn't the only retreat that you're involved in because next week the leadership team will remain and you will have a retreat just for the leadership team. Tell us about what's going to happen at that retreat next week.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, because we're together at least the guys on the leadership team attending this retreat with the global leaders, I wanted to talk about a couple of things, or actually let me mention some things that we'll be doing at the leadership team retreat.

The first one is really to debrief from this week because all of us are taking notes and learning and we're wanting to just talk about what did we learn to serve these men more effectively, to serve their churches more effectively? What did we learn in advancing the gospel in different parts of the world in terms of challenges they're facing and how can we serve them in that? So we'll spend quite a bit of time doing that, but I've always got a long agenda. We never get through all of it. I design it that way. But I just wanted to point out a couple of things on that agenda just for our podcast listeners or podcast readers to be aware of and even be praying for as we work through these issues.

So the two issues are this, first of all, I've designed an entire discussion, Sovereign Grace in 10 years, and it's really more of a future oriented type of discussion I want us to have because there are things that we can do now as a leadership team that can impact Sovereign Grace 10 years from now. So I've got some questions I wrote that the leadership team guys will come and we'll just answer together, questions about for example, what do you hope Sovereign Grace looks like 10 years from now? What would that look like? And just building on that, just trying to figure out how do we lead in a way now, that Sovereign Grace will be what we hope for, this is why it's important.

By God's grace, we are becoming a global multi-generational family of churches. So as we expand in different nations, which is all of God's doing and God's work, and as we pass leadership to the next generation, we can't assume that things will always be as they are now. And so we have to prepare for that kind of transition.

Here's the other thing that I've been thinking about and pastors who they know this, as you study denominations historically and you see them begin to grow again by God's grace, what can happen in some of those denominations is that fractures begin to form. You've got a conservative wing or a progressive wing theologically within that denomination and it causes issues. So we could be vulnerable to that if we are growing and expanding globally, that could happen in Sovereign Grace. So what do we do as a leadership team to keep that from happening? And I've been thinking through some of those answers. I don't know if they're any good or not because the other guys will help me figure out if they are. But we really want to try to unpack that a bit as well as a means to serve the future of future generations in Sovereign Grace.

So that's going to be a really important discussion. 10 years is going to go by fast and in that 10 years, 10 years from now, half of our churches will be led by the second generation and maybe more than half. And so what will those churches look like and what will our family of churches look like? So that's one conversation.

The other one is because of what I've mentioned last year at the pastor's conference and just referenced in my comments that I just said, about half of our pastors are in their fifties and sixties. And so the primary leadership of our churches and of Sovereign Grace is going to transition in the next 5 to 10 years to a second generation. And so we've really got to think through that as well.

And so I've got a whole session planned on leadership transition principles and maybe best practices because I think when you think about leadership transition, you can begin to think very practically, which isn't wrong because there's a number of steps you have to think through.

I want us to think, obviously, biblically first because there's principles in scripture that you see. And then I want us to just talk about what is it that we want to model in a transition, not only leadership team transitions, but even how we hope this serves our pastors. What can they model to their church and to the future generation of pastors in Sovereign Grace so that when another transition occurs 30, 40 years from now, there's been something modeled that is biblically based, that is God honoring and that serves the church and brings glory to Christ.

And so we've got a whole conversation planned and my hope is to come away with what do we want to model; some principles, maybe even some best practices that can somehow be packaged together and made available to our churches as these transitions happen over the next decade. So as you can hear, this leadership team retreat is a lot future oriented, although it's not that far in the future. It's only 10 years in the future. And that's intentional on my part to put an agenda together like that. We will talk about present issues in Sovereign Grace, but we just need time to pull away as a leadership team and have those longer strategic, future oriented discussions.

So those are just two that we're having. And if you think of it and you're listening to this podcast or reading it, please pray for us and ask that God would give us wisdom because we don't have all the answers. He knows what will, Sovereign Grace will look like in 10 years. He knows how those transitions will go. We don't. So we need him and we need his help and we need his wisdom. So please pray if you would.

Benjamin Kreps:

Will do. Thank you, Mark for the update. Thanks to all the guys on the leadership team that are participating in this week as we're currently recording with global leaders. And then next week when this podcast drops at the retreat, I know that standing behind that assembly of leadership team guys, is sacrifice. You guys have left wives and kids and church, spending time together to serve us and I thank you to all the guys for the ways that you serve us and think about the future and the present.

So thank you, Mark, and thank you, leadership team guys, and thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week. Lord willing. Bye for now.