Thoughts on Civil Disobedience
VIDEO TRANSCRIPT
Benjamin Kreps:
Hey everyone. And welcome back to the Mark Prater podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of churches with our Executive Director. Mark, I would imagine all of the pastors of Sovereign Grace are now aware of the recent article put out by John MacArthur and his team, “Christ, not Caesar is Head of the Church.” It's been making some waves. Have you read it?
Mark Prater:
I have.
Benjamin Kreps:
And what are your thoughts about it?
Mark Prater:
Well, first of all, I think they give a very thoughtful reason as an eldership for the decision that they made. And I really appreciate the fact that they gave a thoughtful argument and I support their ability and authority as a local church in California facing what they're facing to make the decision they did.
Benjamin Kreps:
Absolutely.
Mark Prater:
So I think that was all really good. I think where I thought the article was unhelpful was calling other churches to join them, even a sign the article or the statement and endorse it. I think it's unhelpful because I think decisions that pastors face on civil disobedience as it relates to the pandemic vary so much from nation to nation, state, to state and county to county that our guys need to put their own thought into their biblical argument for civil disobedience, if they take that step. And is that biblical argument legitimate in the context that they're in? So that's my concern with it.
Benjamin Kreps:
Sure. I agree that it was a very thoughtful, rooted in Scripture. The one piece you're referring to is at the end, I have the article up, says, “Our prayer is that every faithful congregation will stand with us and obedience to our Lord as Christians have done through the centuries.” So he's framing this as a matter of obedience to the Lord. Do you see that as the best way, maybe, to frame this, especially when some of us are maybe not everywhere he is when it comes to no restrictions, no following of guidelines.
Mark Prater:
I don't think it's the most helpful way. I can understand why he stated it that way, but I don't think it's the most helpful way in part, again, because things vary from locale to locale. And even in Romans 13, as you know, and our guys know, the reasons that we follow Romans 13, one of them that Paul gives there, it's a matter of conscience. So I wouldn't want to unnecessarily bind somebody's conscience. I think pastors need to exegete Romans 13, come up with their own biblical principles regarding civil disobedience, and that should inform their conscience rather than maybe a call by another pastor to obey. I think that's a more helpful approach.
Benjamin Kreps:
Yeah. So as you connected to that, what you just said, pastors exegeting relevant, biblical texts about submission to governing authorities, any suggestions you have for us as we continue to move forward through this difficult season and make our plans?
Mark Prater:
Yeah, I would say Romans 13 again, verses one through seven. I couldn't commend more Doug Moo’s commentary, in particular. Tom Shriner's very good on it. He arrives at a similar place as Moo when it comes to Romans 13 and civil disobedience, in particular. I find that both men give a thoughtful, biblical exegesis of Romans 13 and a balanced view of when civil disobedience may be necessary. And you see in there just, I think some theological principles that lay behind the reasons why Paul is asking individuals, all Christians, to obey civil authorities. One of those, you know, is governing authorities have been appointed by God. So what lies behind that is the sovereign rule and reign of our Lord Jesus Christ. And that's why it's important that in most situations we do follow governing authorities because it leads to the second reason: God has put those governing authorities in place, as the text says, really to bring order to our society. And that's a reflection of the fact that God is a God of order.
And for those reasons, he calls us to submit—that's the language, at least in the ESV—to governing authorities. But, it's not an absolute submission. It's not an absolute obedience. So when a governing authority does things that would be contrary, for example, then we're called to civilly disobey. I think that's where Moo lays out a very balanced approach.
Benjamin Kreps:
So you're talking to pastors here and I would imagine most of us, and I would hope all of us, have reckoned with Romans 13, 1 Peter 2:13-17 and texts like that, having done that good work and having our principles in place, acknowledging that there is a place for civil disobedience, any brief thoughts actually going about disobeying the government when we feel that the government or see that the government has overstepped when it comes to our worship.
Mark Prater:
Yeah, I think, again, as it relates to the pandemic, I think it really does depend upon the local government and state government restrictions where your church exists. That's a big factor. I think infection rates are a big factor as well. But in light of that, I think if you decide to civilly disobey, I think it should be done in the fear of the Lord. Because you take Romans 13 and the impact that it should have upon us, at least from a theological standpoint, is that we should fear the Lord. And if we take that step, we're taking it thoughtfully and biblically, yet in a fear of the Lord. I think the other thing is get your tone right on this. So if you were to decide to civilly disobey now, or maybe sometime in the future, and you communicate your decision to your congregation that you're going to take that step, I think tone is very, very important. That it's filled with a sense of awe and fear of the Lord, that you reluctantly take that step.
And I think, you know, Dietrich Bonhoeffer is a great example for us. Obviously he civilly disobeyed during World War II. And one of the first speeches he made was at a conference, I think it was 1934. It about 10 years before he was involved in the assassination plot with Hitler. It was a conference called the Fanø, if I'm pronouncing it right, FANO conference. And in his speech he did some things where I think he got tone right. So he avoided personally attacking anyone. That's one of the things that's notable. Secondly, he didn't point people to himself. Rather, he pointed people to Christ. That's the right thing for us to do as pastors.
Benjamin Kreps:
Always the right thing to do, actually.
Mark Prater:
Yeah. Right, exactly. And the third thing he did, he didn't try to escalate the situation. In fact, he tried to deescalate it mostly through, through calls for peace. And when peace didn't happen, then he took more steps of civil disobedience. But I really appreciated the tone that he took in it. And I think our guys need to be mindful, not only of content, of any decision they make. Content of the argument or their rationale to their church, I think how they communicate it in the right tone is really, really important.
Benjamin Kreps:
Excellent. And I think implicitly in what you just shared, we have much to learn from faithful Christians who have walked through these issues before us. And so thanks for sharing those thoughts about Bonhoeffer as we navigate through this difficult season. Well, thank you, Mark. And thank you everyone for watching and we'll see you back here real soon.